How to Evaluate a Quarterback
by lifelongvike on Dec 20, 2009 10:17 AM EST
57 comments
Its easy to get caught up in the Hype of the glamor spot on the roster. The real draft question is how do you evaluate a QB for your team. I always go back to the 2004 draft to understand the dynamics of drafting a QB. Heres how it set up
Ely Manning. Rated as the best QB. All the tools. Great pedigree
Phillip Rivers. Best arm but has an unorthodox sidearm type delivery
Benn Rothlisberger. Big guy. Strong Arm. Small School. Played against inferior talent
J.P. Lousman. Talented Gunslinger type that could be the steal of the draft.
Manning publicly announces he doesn't want to play for San Diego. San Diego drafts him #1 overall. NY Giants wants Manning and has the #4 pick. Detroit wants Rivers and offers to trade the #7 pick plus picks to the Giants. Instead NY picks Rivers and trades him for Manning plus they give up huge picks. Detroit passes on Big Ben at #7 and lets Pittsburgh take him later. The Bills take JP late in round 1 and are ecstatic with their selection.
So how do you rate a QB.? How could Detroit pass on a Franchise guy like Rothlisberger? What made Rivers so valuable to the Detroit scheme? What made JP risky? I think the answer is the "It" factor. Arm speed, foot speed, mechanics, IQ, height, weight, all are measurable talents. I think the scouts are correct in measuring these attributes and the ratings applied are correct. If the rating services say Clausen is the best QB they are probably correct in all of these measureables. But the "busts" like Leaf, Couch,JP, Russell, ect all happen because of the "it' factor. Does my QB have the integrity to take 25 Million Dollars and then go out and take a beating? Will he work hard to improve when he has relied on natural ability his whole life? Is he the kind of guy others will follow because of his confidence in himself?
This years QB's are Claussen ,Bradford and Mallett. All with top rated measurables. Mallett is a young , very unpolished Sophomore who left Michigan for Arkansas. Does his transferring schools indicate a more "me first" attitude and less "it" factor than Bradford who gave up Millions to go back to school and try and win a championship? Did Bradford go back to school for honorable reasons or was it something else? Is Claussen a spoiled brat that has had everything given to him on a silver platter his whole life?
For teams that are selecting a QB you never have to doubt the measureables. All three of these guys have the arm, foot speed, and talent to make it in the NFL. Quarter backs like McCoy, Pike, Snead all have good measurables but not definitive ones like the top three. But no one knows how any of these men will react to the pressure of Fame and Money. This is the area you need to trust your teams talent evaluators. So I ask you. If your team needs a QB do you trust your teams Talent Evaluators to make the correct QB choice?
My team is the Vikings. Our Scouts have done a great job in drafting the last 3 years. The only question mark has been drafting a QB. However, I trust them to do their job at that position just like every other. Unfortunately we won't have an opportunity for one of the top 3. I hope one of the others has "it".
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Is that the one that stands for Superman?
Thanks for the correction
by lifelongvike on Dec 20, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
I did not know that the Lions were making a play for Rivers in 2004.
If that is true my respect for Millen as a talent evaluator went up about 500%.
Yes
McMillen wants Manning + 500%
McMillen passes on Rothlisberger -500%
Total 0%
by lifelongvike on Dec 23, 2009 8:13 AM EST up reply actions
If Eli sucks..Romo sucks.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 20, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Eli has never, not for a single season
Put up better numbers than Romo.
He gets props based on one good month. That’s fine, and flags fly forever, but there’s absolutely no question Romo is the better QB.
Romo is the opposite of clutch, he throws away too many games.
If Romo didn’t spend so much time golfing, maybe he could be better
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 21, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Eli gets props for one month...
by the uninformed and those that don’t follow/hate the Giants (or specifically Eli Manning…)
Eli’s been very good, tho as inconsistent as any non-machine QB (re: his brother) for the 2 years following ‘his good month’.
He plays (well..played..) in a run first offense. Now that they are passing first…you’d think people would take the blinders off and give him some credit.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 21, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Eli plays
With a good receiving corps and a good O-line. He’s had a good year this year, but even now, when he’s putting up easily the best numbers of his career, his numbers are inferior to Romo-who happens to have one of the worst passblocking lines in football.
Cowboys
Don’t have one of the worst pass blocking lines. They are around 15 in every pass blocking category, not great, but middle of the pack. Jaguars, Packers, and Chiefs have the worst pass blocking lines.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
Dude
You can’t just look at sack numbers. Jay Cutler’s been sacked 31 times; so has Brett Favre. But you can’t tell me the Vikings’ and Bears’ lines are equal; everyone knows the Minnesota line is great (Regardless of what the Carolina D-Line did to them on sunday night) and the Bears’ line is beyond horrendous. It’s also a matter of how good the QB is at eluding pressure and how quickly he gets the ball out-that’s the reason Peyton Manning so rarely gets sacked.
Look at QB hurries and hits. They’ll give you a better indication of what’s going on.
I Did Bro
“In every pass blocking category” they are around 15. Hurries, pressures, hits, everything. Romo is good at buying time, so hurries would be the best stat.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
Romo has about 60 more passing attempts this season...could easily lead to Romo's having all the extra yards
Eli’s O-line is pretty bad at pass blocking as well…Eli, of course cuz no one wants to look at this, is very good at eluding the pass rush.
Eli’s receiving core was a questionmark..now all of a sudden its a strength. Is it a credit to a bunch of first year starters? Or is it a credit to Eli getting the most out of his WR?
Eli’s putting him the best numbers of his career cuz he actually has WR that he can practice with (unlike Plaxico and in the past, Shockey) and also WR that aren’t slow as molasses and can get open (Toomer).
Also..they are more pass heavy now…but not as much as other teams like the Cowboys.
Also..the Cowboys don’t have a bad pass blocking line. Its just as bad/good as the Giants…that’s for sure.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 21, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Romo has better accuracy and higher yards per attempt and
despite all those throws has less ints than Manning.
Romo has less INT's then Peyton Manning too...
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 21, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 21, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
no...
its really not.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Manning has more touchdowns, right?
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Both.
Yes.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
You're not going to be swayed
Fine, whatever. Just keep in mind you’re completely ignoring the evidence at hand.
yes.
as much as you are..yes.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 22, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt want either of those two
But I would take them over Cassel. I swear, Brodie Croyle has better intangibles then both.
what?
Romo and Eli Manning are in a different class then Cassel and Croyle (Brodie Croyle?…wow.)
Intangibles? Eli Manning’s about as clutch as it gets, in all of the NFL.
Romo’s damn good too.
Only reason I’m starting this is cuz the know it all above, high off his SB win against the Saints…said #10 stinks…
Both QB’s don’t suck. They’re both very good.
Brodie Croyle Sucks.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Dude
I didn’t say Eli stinks. I hate his face, but I’m not going to deny he’s a good QB. I’ll go as far as saying he’s having a great season right now, and playing up to his potential. I said he was overrated, and that I prefer Romo. The Giants are lucky to have Manning; perhaps less lucky than the Chargers and Steelers, but lucky nonetheless. He’s a top 10 QB.
I wasn't refering to you....
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
and don't act like Romo has a bad receiving core
he has RB’s that catch well. The best TE in the game (and actually use him) and his new start WR, Miles Austin, gets a lot of his yards by breaking tackles.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 21, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
A lot
Of Romo’s yards are after the catch.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
Um
Tony G is way better then Witten, So is Gates. Also, The Giants dont have a slouch at TE either. Eli definitly has the better supporting cast. Either way. They are both in the 7-12 range among QB rankings in my book.
Nah..
I’d take Witten right now over Tony G. He’s getting up there in age.
Witten knows how to get open. He’s the best in the game right now.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Cowboy’s line isn’t one of the worst
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 21, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Cowboy line is very, very good at runblocking
But equally bad at passblocking (And penalties, for that matter). Flozell is simply awful, Free’s playing his first games ever and struggling some, Davis, Gurode, and Kosier all have their gaffes, especially Davis. The line cannot handle blitzes at all; they have no earthly idea how to identify who’s coming and which lineman should engage him.
I’m not sure what the numbers are like, but last year Romo got pressured more on a per-snap basis than any other QB in the league. That should give you some idea of what he’s contending with.
Receivers… Austin is fantastic, Witten is good, the running backs aren’t bad. But Williams is plain awful on 80% of plays and Crayton doesn’t get open very much.
Id be willing to bet your numbers are wrong
Tyler Thigpen was running for his life every play. Hurling it up to TG before he got smacked in the mouth.
THe Lions messed up by not getting Ben.
The Giants, SD and the Steelers are reaping the benefits of having franchise QB’s, while the Lions, while they may have found their guy now, have been a steaming pile before that.
Gotta say, while Eli’s excellent and I’d not trade him for any other QB, that Lions trade is tempting.
The Giants probably would’ve had Big Ben, who’s damn good, plus draft picks.
Not gonna sweat it either way.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
Want to know the real bad part?
The draft choice that the Giants gave to San Diego was used by S.D. to pick……. drumroll please……. Shawn Merriman.
Can you believe how good the Giants would have been with Big Ben and Shawn. Plus they would have had an extra pick from Detroit to add to the kitty. Isn’t the draft great.
by lifelongvike on Dec 21, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
no...
I can’t.
Merriman is good as a OLB..but who knows how good he’d have been as a 4-3 DE.
They’re just fine the way they are.
I respect all the other QB"s….I wouldn’t trade #10 for anyone.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 21, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely
In hindsight no one is saying Manning wasn’t worth the price. The loser was Detroit not taking Bradshaw at the 7th pick. But that’s a typical McMillen GM move. He just couldn’t properly evaluate talent.
by lifelongvike on Dec 22, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I find it hard to beleive you wouldnt trade Eli for anyone. If I was the Giants Gm, Here is who I would trade him for.
1. Jamarcus Russell JK Tom Brady
2. His Brother
3. Matt Ryan
4. McNabb
5. Aaron Rodgers
6. Matthew Stafford (Seriously)
Dont get me wrong, Eli is no slouch. He is a game manager to me though. Probably the best game manger ever at throwing the football. Id even throw Warner on that list if he wasnt so Old. Ill give you the benifit of the doubt since he threw that duck in the air tht brought you a SB, but Anybody? Really?
I think your being harsh
All three of these QBs from 2004 have had success. Only about 60% of first round QBs ever succeed in the NFL. Then you have the whole QBs succeed in a certain system argument. Freebradshaw is probably correct that Manning fits the Giants/ Tom Coflin system and is great for that team. Plus not all QBs can handle the NY press. And lord knows that Eli took some very bad press. They called for his head in the middle of his SB year.
If your team has a franchise (10 year success) quarterback be happy and never trade him to anybody.
By the way the Vikes are looking for one if you want to trade.
by lifelongvike on Dec 23, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
Probaly not Colt
Colt has an undisputed weak arm. This doesn’t fit with what has been successful for the Vikes. The coach already drafted a strong arm,fast, agile QB in Tarvaris Jackson. Even though he hasn’t been a great starter (although still a possible long term fit) I think it shows what type of QB the Vikes want.
by lifelongvike on Dec 23, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Tarvaris
Has probably learned a lot from Favre. I bet he has a redeeming season when Favre retires. Tarvaris has shown flashes of brilliance.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
I hope your right
If Tarvaris has progressed better than the fans know then it will save the Vikes a high draft pick. Everyone loves his tools. Has he learned to read and react to defenses is the only question.
by lifelongvike on Dec 24, 2009 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
His brother.
and Brees.
That’s it. Those are the only ones I wouldn’t trade Eli for.
He’s outplayed Brady when they play each other…that’s enough for me to not take Brady over him.
I know where your coming from…and that’s in the completely irrelevant category…when all you got is the one catch in the SB.
Since that’s all you got with Eli..one catch..one play….you’re whole stance on this is irrelevant. THat catch was just as important as any other on that drive, but no..don’t mention those cuz ESPN doesn’t mention that.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
1. Maybe, but changing QBs isn’t always a good idea cuz the Giants have built around Manning.
2. Yes
3. Not really
4. No
5. Same as 1
6. I hope you are joking
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 24, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
pretty much...
aside from the 2 best in the game…which are Peyton and Brees…its either maybe (Brady, Rodgers or McNabb..) or absolutely not.
That’s my QB…won a Bowl with him (and it was more then one catch…those who actually watch football on Sunday’s know this…) and well..he’s a franshise QB..the Giants QB..and to hell with anyone else’s QB, cuz they’ll never be on my team.
He’s the Giants QB..I don’t like anyone else.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 24, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
McNabb is older and I’m not sure he is as good
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 25, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Was Martz
Calling plays for Detroit when during that draft?
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
Your one coach to early
Mariucci, Steve, HEAD COACH 2003-05
by lifelongvike on Dec 21, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking
Martz probably would have lobbied for someone like Rivers, a high percentage passer coming out of college.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
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