Kiper and McShay battle over Jimmy Clausen
This is pretty good stuff from Mel Kiper and Todd McShay.
I tend to side with McShay on this debate. There's just something somewhat undefinable about Clausen that's not to like.
The SB Nation Notre Dame blog, Rakes of Mallow, gives their take. Sadly, this blog has nothing to do with Fluffer Nutters or S'mores.
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Both have become
Non-credible idiots who are fighting for each other’s job rather than giving proper analysis. ESPN made a mistake by hiring both at the same time. You either have one or the other with me.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 15, 2010 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
dude...
Mel Kiper has made the draft the huge thing it is. We would not be here on this site if not for Mel Kiper publicizing it. He generally knows his stuff, and has credibility around college and pro football. Right here, we learn that he spoke to players on Notre Dame about Jimmy Clausen. That tells me a lot. It tells me even more that it wasn’t something done to be played on ESPN. He did it to find more out about Jimmy Clausen.
And McShay is an idiot. A pompous, arrogant dim-wit.
by birds'n'raiders on Jan 15, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you really hate McShay.
Talking to players is nice, but what else are they going to tell Kiper…that Clausen sucks? A teammate is always going to say the utmost things about another teammate, and sometimes might overexaggerate. a team is a brotherhood, a comraderie. they are your brothers out there. are you going to talk shit about your brother to a total stranger?? I don’t think so. just b/c golden tate, his receiver that got him the ball said he is good, he must be good? that situation is in some ways like asking a child (as a stranger) what they think of their parent and how they provide for them.
I would rather go with someone who actually was analyzing play and watching play, instead of talking to the guy’s friends. McShay had facts, analysis of game film, and a scouting report whereas all Mel was saying was a bunch of hooey hearsay.
by bross09 on Jan 15, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A teammate is always going to say the utmost things about another teammate, and sometimes might overexaggerate. a team is a brotherhood, a comraderie. they are your brothers out there. are you going to talk shit about your brother to a total stranger??
Totally agree, you should tell that to Drew K
McShay, Todd McShay you hear me boy? It's me TJ and I'm coming for your damn job boy! Oh be scared, be very scared McShay.
by tj.hendricks on Jan 16, 2010 2:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McShay said just as much if not more ‘hooey hearsay’ as Mel if not more.
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 16, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he was talking game film…Kiper was asking a guy’s buddies what they thought of him…what is mo williams gonna say about lebron???
by bross09 on Jan 16, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN made a mistake by hiring both at the same time
Mel Kiper has been on ESPN since dinosaurs romed the earth.
McShay, Todd McShay you hear me boy? It's me TJ and I'm coming for your damn job boy! Oh be scared, be very scared McShay.
by tj.hendricks on Jan 16, 2010 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and I gotta go with Mel on this one
Clausen will be a great QB in this league. Book it. And he’s going #1. Face it guys, a DT does not have as much impact on a game as a franchise QB. I love Suh, and i think he is a better prospect, but Clausen is the better choice.
by birds'n'raiders on Jan 15, 2010 4:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You say,
Face it guys, a DT does not have as much impact on a game as a franchise QB.
The problem is you never know if these “Franchise QBs” are going to pan out. A dominant DT can have the biggest impact on a defense especially if its a 3-4. Eating up those extra blocks so your backers can roam free is what every team in this league is looking for on the D-line because it makes EVERYONE on the defense better.
A dominant DT can improve run defense by eating extra blocks, the same for rushing the passer, consiquently your pass rush gets there faster and your DBs have a better chance on the ball. Look at what Haloti Ngata did for the Ravens freeing up Ray Lewis and the crew.
by bryanablair on Jan 16, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ngata had less of an impact than Flacco
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 16, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Truth.
The Ravens, for all their alleged ‘elite D’ crap they’ve touted all decade, haven’t really done much without a QB, aside from 2001.
Holmgren would have drafted Crabtree.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 17, 2010 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Flacco had been a bust
His impact would have been negligible. I’m not saying the QB doesn’t matter, I just don’t think positional impact determination can be a definite deal maker when determining whom to pick. Ngata doesn’t have nearly the impact because the Ravens D was already established as a strong D, when their O was in need of a boost.
Clausen may have an impact on the Rams O. But Suh will definitely have an impact on our D.
by dbcouver on Jan 17, 2010 2:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s just something somewhat undefinable about Clausen that’s not to like.
Yea….he’s from Notre Dame. The hating is kinda pathetic
by Rocland on Jan 15, 2010 4:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It has nothing to do with where he went to school. Your assumption is very pathetic.
Mocking the Draft: Your NFL Draft source.
by Mocking Dan on Jan 15, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been involved in this debate many times. And there are very few people like you, thankfully, who don’t realize the scrutiny that ND QB’s have endured throughout the years. Either that or don’t want to realize it. Head over to the Browns blog and look up my post if you want to see a engaging debate about it.
by Rocland on Jan 15, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
at the same time, are you really going to say that the scrutiny for an elite QB recruit is that much more at ND that he deserves more consideration than one from tOSU, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, or Florida? Any big school? there is tons of scrutiny for an elite prospect (like clausen) at any school. there is tons of scrutiny right now with Pryor at tOSU. they both came in with similar hype (and Pryor had more if anything). saying that ND players should be drafted higher b/c of scrutiny is asinine. players at big colleges have the same scrutiny. yes, at one point in history there was much more scrutiny on the QB position at ND than anywhere else, but those days are gone. you don’t draft someone b/c at one point in the college’s history, they were highly scrutinized. on the national scale, he is not as scrutinized as tebow, McCoy, or Bradford. the guys that don’t get scrutinized as much are the jevan snead’s and jake locker’s of the world. elite players and big (but not that prestigious) colleges.
saying clausen is that much better and deserves that much more consideration is like saying that tony romo is the best QB in the league just b/c he plays in Dallas. QBs these days are scrutinized everywhere and if you put peyton or brady on that team, they would put up better numbers and more wins. is tony romo really the league’s best QB b/c he plays in Dallas? No. I am not saying he is bad, but he doesn’t deserve special consideration b/c of the supposed scrutiny. I feel the same way about clausen.
by bross09 on Jan 15, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clausen gets scrutinized a lot more than Pryor, Colt, Tebow and Bradford because there are a lot more people that hate ND than people that hate Texas, OSU, UF, and OK.
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 15, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
even if that were true (which it isn’t completely…there are a lot of haters of all those schools) that doesn’t make him a better QB and doesn’t mean he is under as much scrutiny. pryor has been scrutinized more since coming out and there was more hype. I have followed both’s careers. pryor has been much more scrutinized. so has tebow…tebow is extremely scrutinized. I am saying this from an objective point completely.
by bross09 on Jan 16, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True on Pryor
I think one could make a case for Tebow being scrutinized more than anyone else in that group.
by dbcouver on Jan 17, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know. and some of it IS because of where he went to school. saying a guy should be considered more b/c of the scrutiny he faced is fallacious, especially when he didn’t even face the most scrutiny. by TheRealSlimShady’s logic of scrutiny, Tebow should be a top 15 pick b/c of all the scrutiny.
by bross09 on Jan 17, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Clausen the next Joe Montana?
Or Rick Mirer, Brady Quinn, and that other guy? Stay tuned!
Holmgren would have drafted Crabtree.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 15, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whose that other guy?
For every woman masturbating right now, there is a guy masturbating while imagining that woman masturbate.
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by Patssuck456 on Jan 16, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A five hundred quarterback? That’s what worries me. The top ten teams (including my Bills) have problems beating the teams they’re “not supposed to beat”. Meaning, they only beat bad to mediocre teams, hence three 7-9 and 1 6-10 season. Adding Clausen to that, I worry about more of the same…..I can’t get that little voice out of my head about Clausen.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 16, 2010 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta agree with Kiper...
Clausen’s probably the last of a dying breed…a pro style college QB. All these coloring book offenses are gonna inflate stats and not gonna help a QB learn NFL systems.
To be honest..I hope a lot of teams side with McShay.
I hope Bradford goes first QB to the Redskins and Clausen falls to say…the Raiders or even the Bills. I’d likes to see one of these teams become relevent again…and of course, the Redskins to rot in their own dung.
Clausen’s the best QB in this draft. He’s gonna be an excellent NFL QB.
Clausen goes to the Raiders with Zach Miller, Chaz Schillens, Johnny Lee Higgins..all those guys that Bruce Gradkowski made look good.. the Raiders are goona be good.
Everything that McShay says is just stupid to knock him for. To summarize, he’s a cocky bastard? Well…so is Phillip Rivers.
He’s not all that big? Well…either is Drew Brees.
Really…I hope all these teams pass on him. I’d love to see the Raiders good again.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 15, 2010 5:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
6’2-6’3 is the same size as Stafford and Sanchez.
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 15, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope he goes to whatever team gives him a chance to succeed.
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 15, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dang...
Freebradshaw… gotta hand it to you. You write good posts, that I always directly look for here and over at BBV… but this one left a disgusting taste in my mouth!
Bradford is not going to be a bad QB… so if the Redskins to get him us Giants fans should be scared. Clausen? I think he will be good, but I like the leader Bradford is as well as his amazing accuracy. Bradford is a mixture of Tebow and Mccoy- smarts, leadership, accuracy, and throws great. Clausen to me is good qb, minus the intangibles, and I see more ‘bad decision’ throws from him.
I agree the Raiders could get good again, but it’ll take a whole lot more than a QB and you know it. They have talent, but no chemistry.
Finally, just because stats are inflated in some college situations does not mean that a QB is so highly overrated.
You’re gonna eat your words draft day! :)
Compliments to you for your great posts… I always like what you have to say.
by NYG 28 on Jan 15, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Preciate it...
I do what I can…
THo, I’ll disagree on Bradford. I think he, like Clausen, could be a very good QB, but he’s just not gonna be ready.
His offense in college is just not what it is in the pros. You see all that looking over to the sideline before he hikes the ball? That’s his coaches in the booth relaying down to him what play to run or who his hot read should be.
Now he’s got the talent. He does have the accuracy, tho his is inflated like all these spread or Big 12, whatever you wanna call it college style offense.
He’s smart, but he’s gonna have to sit for a few years in order to learn how to play pro style QB.
It doesn’t mean he’s overrated…but it does mean that he’s not gonna be able to start right away.
Also, on Clausen to the Raiders, I think Clausen can go in and start right away, unlike Bradford.
And yea, they do have chemistry and a whole lot of the stuff that an NFL team needs to win. ITs just that Jamacus is so bad that it takes away from everything. Bruce Gradkowski and Charlie Frye did well when they played…that’s not a coincidence.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 15, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and more to the point on Bradford...
I think Danny Boy will force Shanahan to start him right away (if they draft him).
That will be a disaster cuz they have no OL anyway…
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 15, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One reason you see less bad decisions from Bradford is because he comes from a spread, which makes reads much easier
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 15, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clausen might not be a good NFL QB
With anyone, it’s incredibly difficult to tell, but McShay’s reasons are awful/wrong. Jimmy doesn’t have great accuracy? 68% and fourth in the country. Not enough size? He makes his receivers adjust? I urge you to watch the Golden Tate highlight film in the Rakes link and look at how the ball is always right there. McShay is just 100% wrong here.
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by CW on Jan 15, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
exactly...
well..the only thing he may have a point on is the lack of size. Clausen does seem a bit skinny…but if he’s gonna say Sam Bradford has elite size and Clausen does not…he needs to check himself.
Bradford’s taller…but skinnier.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 16, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Clausen is as good as it gets nowadays for QB prospects,
but one small nagging part of me keeps thinking that he’s the next Ryan Leaf.
Holmgren would have drafted Crabtree.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 15, 2010 7:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that's one thing where McShay may be right...
I can get a sense that Clausen is a bit of a hot head.
But playing in the limelight in ND…really, nothing’s really flared up like that.
Washington State’s Pac-10 football, so its not small time. But its not ND.
I think that’s really why Leaf blew gaskets..cuz he really wasnt’ used to the media up in his grill…even in a place like SD.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 15, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most impressive was Russell’s passing session, which lasted nearly an hour and consisted of 75 attempts. Russell was not perfect — he mistimed a couple of throws and bounced one of his out-route attempts to the left side. Nevertheless, I can’t remember being in such awe of a quarterback in my decade of attending combines and pro days.
Russell’s arm strength is sensational; he makes the toughest deep-outs and post-corner passes look seamless. He also displayed outstanding footwork and the ability to make strong, accurate throws on the run, both to his right and left.
-Todd McShay
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 15, 2010 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
and at the same time, kiper praised him too…
"Jamarcus Russell’s gonna immediately energize that Raider Nation, that fanbase, that football team- on the practice field, in that locker room- three years from now you could be looking at a guy that’s certainly one of the elite top five quarterbacks in this league.
You’re talking about a 2-3 year period once he’s under center. Look out because skill level that he has is certainly John Elway like."
3 years from now, you could be lookign at a top 5 quarterback in the NFL
so we shouldn’t trust Kiper’s opinion either…both were wrong so you can’t use that argument…
by bross09 on Jan 16, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets face it
Russell fooled a lot of people.
by dbcouver on Jan 17, 2010 2:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes…that is my point. someone saying that we shouldn’t listen to McShay but Kiper b/c of russel is being dumb. if anything, kiper thought even higher of russel (and compared him to Elway).
I would never bullshit anyone on this, but I did think russel was gonna be a bust. I saw him and saw a black ryan leaf. I dunno what it was, I just didn’t see him having that “it” factor (combination of poise, awareness and intangibles) that you need to be an NFL QB. I also didn’t see it with Derek Anderson and even predicted then that his season was a little fluky. I was never a fan. I did think that Quinn had the “it” factor but he has been surrounded with subpar talent.
I think clausen has more of “it” than either Anderson or Russel, but I don’t see as much of “it” in him as in clausen.
by bross09 on Jan 17, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Combine or Pro Day
This was just a comment on a guy throwing the ball around in a game situation. Im sure if you were there watching you would have come away with the same feelings.
The problem with Russel is he doesnt have the ability to read defenses, study film properly, handle game situations, make proper checks… Im sure he looks good in practice when he knows he isnt going to get hit either.
This is why people (Al Davis) need to stop putting so much stock in individual work outs and the combine.
by bryanablair on Jan 16, 2010 3:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Todd also said Clausen only has slightly above average accuracy. I guess that would explain his 68% completion percent in a pro-style O.
And he said Tate always had to adjust to Clausen’s throws. When you watch Tate’s highlights you see that Clausen hit him in the chest pretty much every time.
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 16, 2010 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If I had to choose between the two I’m taking Bradford, and it’s not even close. Aside from the BCS title game against my Gators, that guy is unstoppable in college. Jimmy Clausen, not so much.
Maybe I’m drunk on the haterade (more like the anti-ballwashing of anything that comes from Notre Dame amirite?), I dunno, I just don’t like what I see from Clausen.
by KingRichard on Jan 19, 2010 11:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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