4 Round Mock Draft (Updated 2/9)
by jmztitans2 on Feb 9, 2010 9:09 PM EST
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Mock Draft, Updated 2/9
This is a four round mock draft, which I will update periodically. Please comment, especially on your perception of team needs.
* Denotes a coin flip will decide draft order
ROUND 1
1) St. Louis Rams -- Ndamukong Suh (DT, Nebraska)
St. Louis badly needs a DT to anchor their defense. Suh is the best player in the draft, and the best DT prospect in a long, long time. Although they could also go T or QB here, the Rams take a guy who has the ability to be as much of a game and team changer as Albert Haynsworth would be if he tried every play.
2) Detroit Lions -- Gerald McCoy (DT, Oklahoma)
To say Detroit's defense is bad is an understatement. McCoy will be the anchor of their defense for years to come. Their other main position of need is T, and they would be a prime candidate to trade down if anyone is targeting Berry or Morgan. If Suh drops to #2, Detroit sets the record for quickest draft selection.
3) Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- Eric Berry (S, Tennessee)
The theme of the top of the draft: defense. Tampa Bay's is aging and lacking playmakers. They go with an Ed Reed-type safety who will instantly give their defense an identity they have lacked. They could also go with Morgan here, or trade down to select Dez Bryant.
4) Washington Redskins -- Russell Okung (T, Oklahoma State)
A lot of people expect Washington to go QB here, but I think Shanahan gives a talented Jason Campbell a chance. Campbell's biggest downside, and it is a major downside, is that he doesn't appear to be the kind of leader you would want in a QB. Having said that, Washington's bigger need is on the offensive line, especially with Chris Samuels getting up their in age, so the Redskins select the best available tackle. Shanahan knows the importance of a great LT like he had in Ryan Clady in Denver.
5) Kansas City Chiefs -- Rolando McClain (ILB, Alabama)
Kansas City's run blocking was 31st in the league and their pass blocking was ranked 26th (h/t Drew K). Some think Brandon Albert isn't cutting it as an NFL LT and would be better suited at RT. However, Albert improved greatly. over the second half of the season. The Chiefs might select Okung here if he falls and move Albert to RT if they grade Okung high, but if Okung and Eric Berry are not there I think the Chiefs go with the future anchor of their defense in McClain. Pioli chose Jerod Mayo high when he was with the Chiefs and knows he needs to improve this defense. Kansas City also needs help on S, CB, and at WR, so I think they would take Berry if he was available, and they are also a candidate to trade down if they like other Ts.
6) Seattle Seahawks -- Jimmy Clauson (QB, Notre Dame)
With two first round picks, Seattle has the amo to trade up if they really want Berry or one of the top DTs. Their offensive line has been terrible and soft this year, so I think they could select the best OT available. Matt Hasselback's skills have declined and he is getting up there in age. Seattle selects his eventual replacement in Clauson. The guy just seems like a Pete Carrol type of QB.
7) Cleveland Browns -- Joe Haden (CB, Florida)
Cleveland seemed to improve at the end of the season, but they still have a lot of team needs. CB, S, DE, WR, QB. I'm not a fan of either of their QBs, but I think Holmgren and Mangini will give Brady Quinn one more year to prove himself. The pick could easily be Clauson, Bradford, Morgan or Dez Bryant, but I think Cleveland goes with fulfilling their dire need of improving their secondary. They already have one good CB, but none of their other CBs are starter-quality.
- 8) Oakland Raiders -- Anthony Davis (T, Rutgers)
- The Jamarcus Russel experiment should be over. He's horrible, but Al Davis doesn't know that. Oakland also has needs at QB, T, DT, DE, CB (#2), and WR. Other possible selections here are Clauson, Williams (T, Oklahoma), Morgan (DE, Georgia Tech), Dunlap (DE, Florida), and Joe Haden if he’s available, who could cause Al Davis to dream of having two shut-down corners. In the end, Oakland probably goes with the guy who runs the fastest 40 (thank goodness they didn’t pick Chris Johnson 2 years ago). Having said that, I’ve still got them picking Davis, who is athletic and has tremendous potential. LT Mario Henderson and RT Cornell Green aren’t exactly making any Pro Bowls any time soon, and Al Davis will want to give Russel and McFadden all the chances he can.
9) Buffalo Bills -- Sam Bradford (QB, Oklahoma)
Buffalo has a major need at QB here. Trent Edwards seemed like he was the future for a while, but he really regressed this past year. I think they may take a T here because their offensive live is awful, but the Bills choose to address that need later and take Bradford.. Buffalo could also go NT, Rush OLB, WR, or T here. The major problem for the Bills is that there probably won’t be any high-grade tackles available when they pick in the second round, so they really need to make either QB or T a priority via a trade or free agency and fix the other need with this draft choice.
10) Denver Broncos -- Dan Williams (DT, Tennessee)*
Denver had two first round picks because of the Bears trade, but traded one away to the Seahawks to select Alfonso Smith, CB, in the second round last year. If anyone saw the running clinic the Kansas City Chiefs put on Denver, they know the Broncos main need is defense. If McClain is there, I think they take him, but seeing as he is not, Denver decides to go with a NT here and select Williams. They could also select an ILB, DE, S, WR, or 3-4 OLB (if they lose Dumervil to FA). I think they keep Marshall, and therefore take a NT to anchor their 3-4 D
11) Jacksonville Jaguars -- Derrick Morgan (DE, Georgia Tech)*
Jacksonville needs DT, DE, CB, S, and TE (some say QB, but Garrard is good enough). I think they'll take the best DE avaliable on their board, which could be Pierre-Paul, Dunlap, or Morgan. They could also go Thomas (S) or Price (DT) here. Some think they'll pick Tebow here, but I don't buy it. The Jags were last in the NFL in sacks this year, so they need help on the d-line, and I think they ultimately go with Morgan
- 12) Miami Dolphins -- Dez Bryant (WR, Oklahoma State)
- Jason Taylor and Joey Porter are getting up there in age, so the Dolphins could select Kindle or Graham as 3-4 OLB when either Taylor or Porter eventually leaves or retires. However, Ted Ginn has never lived up to expectations, and none of their other WRs are dynamic enough to bring out all of Chad Henne’s talent, so the Dolphins select Dez Bryant, who many scouts have ranked higher than Crabtree was coming out last year.
13) San Francisco 49ers -- Earl Thomas (S, Texas)
San Fran badly needs an impact safety, so they select the highest ranked safety in the draft in Thomas
14) Seattle Seahawks -- Bruce Campbell (T, Maryland)
Seattle's O-line was awful this year, and they go with the best O-lineman available that fits their scheme. After workouts/the combine, this might be Bulaga or Williams, but for the time being it is Campbell. They could also go DT or DE here.
15) New York Giants -- Brian Price (DT, UCLA)
The Giants once great defense was subpar, even bad last year. They have major needs at MLB, S, DT, RT, and CB. The Giants improve their D-line by taking the best DT available, but they could also go Earl Thomas if he’s available, go with a DE, or go with Spikes if he runs a good 40.
16) Tennessee Titans -- Jason Pierre-Paul (DE, South Florida)*
As a Titans fan, I think the Titans should trade up to get Haden. Nick Harper was absolutely awful this season as the Titans #2 corner, and Rod Hood didn't do much better when he got the start in Week 17 vs. Seattle. Also, if Earl Thomas falls, I'm fairy sure we would take him and move him to CB. The Titans also have needs at OLB, DE, DT if Tony Brown is not re-signed, S (Griffin has regressed and Hope's skills are declining with age) and they may select a MLB and either move him to OLB or move their MLB (Tulluch) to OLB. If Haden falls here, I will scream at my TV for the Titans to take him, and I think they would. However, that’s more of a dream than a reality, and the Titans lack of a pass rush was a major reason for their decline from 2008/9 to 2009/10, and in a division with Schaub and Manning, the Titans will probably take a DE here. They could go with Graham, Griffen, or Dunlap, but here I think they would go with Pierre-Paul who has immense potential. Jim Washburn knowns how to get the most out of his players on the D-line. The Titans could also very easily go Kyle Wilson here, who could help not only at a dire need at CB but also in the return game, or go with Kindle, Bowman, or Weatherspoon at OLB, especially if Keith Bulluck is not resigned.
17) San Francisco 49ers -- Trent Williams (T, Oklahoma)*
San Fransisco is a young, talented team that still has a lot of needs. They have a LT in Joe Staley, but they badly need a RT (theirs gave up ten sacks last year), and pick an All-American one up in Williams. They could also select a S, DE/OLB, WR, CB, or NT here.
18) Pittsburgh Steelers -- Mike Iupati (G/RT, Idaho)
Some may think this is far too high for a guard, but the the Steeler’s offensive line was abused last year, really hampering an otherwise talented offense. At the same time their defense declined last year and is aging, so they may decide to go CB, S, DE, DT, or ILB here. However, I believe they will decide to go with an extremely talented guard with a mean streak and select Iupati, who scouts say will almost surely make several Pro Bowls in his career (even without about half the players dropping out of the Pro Bowl)
19) Atlanta Falcons -- Navorro Bowman (OLB, Penn State)*
The Falcons secondary is bad, but there is no CB here worth taking (I think Robinson is overrated and not worth a 1st round pick). The Falcons decide to sure up their run defense and a weak position at OLB and take Bowman, who has off-field problems but comes from LB U and appears to be very talented.
20) Houston Texans -- C. J. Spiller (HB, Clemson)*
Chris Brown and Ryan Moats were the Texan's starting running back at different times last year. Arian Fosterdid well in his last start for the Texans in Week 17, but the Texans would jump at the chance to select an electrifying, multipurpose back in Spiller. After all, they face one twice a year in Chris Johnson. Spiller has similar skills, although he doesn't quite have 4.24 speed. The Texans could also take a DE, DT or S here. The Mays v. Price v. Spiller call would be difficult, but I think they would go with Spiller.
21) Cincinnati Bengals -- Jermaine Gresham (TE, Oklahoma)
At first, I thought Cinci would take a DE here. Antwan Odom will presumably be healthy next year, but the Bengals other DEs, Jonathan Fanene and Robert Geathers, don't exactly make defensive coordinators nervous. The Bengals would love to see such a talented, yet raw, defensive end fall to them as Pierre-Paul. The Bengals could also take a G like Iupati, a DE, or a WR here. However, after watching their offense struggle in the playoffs, I think the Bengals will take an extremely talented TE in Gresham instead.
22) New England Patriots -- Sergio Kindle (DE/OLB, Texas)
- The Patriots have 3 second round picks, so they could move up if they are interested in a specific player like CJ Spiller. Here, with their pass rush not being what it once was, I think they take a pass rushing DE/OLB in Kindle. They may also take a FS like Taylor Mays in this scenario, go for a WR, or draft a RB, but I think they improve their linebacking core here.
23) Green Bay Packers -- Bryan Bulaga (T, Iowa)
The Packers biggest weakness is their offensive line, specifically their tackles. Bulaga is the best tackle available. The Packers gave up a lead leading 51 sacks last year, so although they also need a rush linebacker, they address their need on the offensive line first.
24) Philadelphia Eagles -- Carlos Dunlap (DE, Florida)
- Philly’s defense was embarrassed by the Cowboys, so they go with the best available player left on the board at DE, and that player is Dunlap, who has tremendous potential but plays too high sometimes and has some consistency and motor issues.
25) Baltimore Ravens -- Arrelious Benn (WR, Illinois)
Derrick Mason is still producing, but he's old, and may retire. Mark Clayton can now surely be labeled a bust. The Ravens two main needs are WR and CB, but there aren't any CBs here worth taking. The Ravens go with the top WR on their board.
26) Arizona Cardinals -- Brandon Graham (DE/OLB, Michigan)
The Cardinals are a team that has done very well the last two years but still seemingly has a lot of needs at key positions. They need a LT, DE/OLB, DT and G. Their offensive line was horrible against the Saints and their defense was awful throughout the playoffs. In the end, this pick comes down to Graham v. Sapp v. Brown. I think the Cardinals select whoever they have as the #1 rush linebacker on their board and in this case I have them selecting Graham.
27) Dallas Cowboys -- Charles Brown (T, USC)
The Cowboy's offensive line in the playoffs was awful. They take the best tackle available here in Brown.
28) San Diego Chargers -- Jonathan Dwyer (RB, Georgia Tech)
San Diego has a huge need at RB, and select the best available here.
29) New York Jets -- Jared Odrick (DT/DE, Penn State)
The Jets need a 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB. Odrick will be a great 3-4 DE who can switch to DT if need be. They still need a WR, but this is a BPA pick; a better value at WR will probably be found in the second round. Also, the Jets are the #1 team that should trade for Anquan Boldin. For the Jets sake, I hope this pick is Cardinal's pick come draft day.
30) Minnesota Vikings -- Kyle Wilson (CB, Fresno State)
If Minnesota could draft an RB coach to teach AP not to fumble, they would. Instead, they decide to take the top CB available in Kyle Wilson. I think Tavaris Jackson is better than any of the QBs available at this point and/or that the Vikings will sign or trade a QB prior to the draft.
31) Indianapolis Colts -- Brandon Spikes (OLB/ILB, Florida)
Tony Ugoh has been a complete bust at T. For a team with a lot of of talent, they have a major need at tackle. However, with a projected 6 tackles going ahead of them in the 1st, there are no tackles to take here for 31st overall value. The Colts have a potential need at MLB with Gary Brackett hitting free agency, so they take a guy with great instincts in Spikes who can give their improved defense more of an attitude, and more skill.
32) New Orleans Saints -- Sean Weatherspoon (OLB, Missouri)
Who Dat? The Super Bowl champs improve their linebacking core by taking the talented Weatherspoon.
ROUND 2
2-1) STL -- Golden Tate (WR, Notre Dame)
2-2) DET -- Everson Griffen (DE, USC)
2-3) TB -- Damian Williams (WR, USC)
2-4) KC -- Taylor Mays (S, USC)
2-5) WAS -- Jahvid Best (RB, California)
2-6) CLE -- Ricky Sapp (DE/OLB, Clemson)
2-7) OAK -- Arthur Jones (DT, Syracuse)
2-8) SEA -- Greg Hardy (DE, Mississippi)
2-9) BUF -- Terrence Cody (DT, Alabama)
2-10) TB -- Alex Carrington (DE, Arkansas State)
2-11) MIA -- Lamarr Houston (DT, Texas)
2-12) NE -- Tyson Alualu (DE/DT, California)
2-13)DEN -- Vladimir Ducasse (G/RT, Massachusetts)
2-14)NYG -- Nate Allen (S, South Florida)
2-15)NE -- Brandon LaFell (WR, LSU)
2-16)CAR -- Demaryius Thomas (WR, Georgia Tech)
2-17)SF -- Jerry Hughes (DE/OLB, TCU)
2-18)KC -- Maurkice Pouncey (G/C, Florida)
2-19)HOU -- Patrick Robinson (CB, Florida State)
2-20)PIT -- Perrish Cox (CB, Oklahoma State)
2-21) CIN -- Gene Atkins (DT, Georgia)
2-22) NE -- Ryan Mathews (RB, Fresno State)
2-23) GB -- Dexter McCluster (RB/WR, Mississippi)
2-24) PHI -- Daryl Washington (OLB/ILB, TCU)
2-25) BAL -- Morgan Burnett (S, Georgia Tech)
2-26) ARI -- Kyle Calloway (T, Iowa)
2-27) DAL -- Chad Jones (S, LSU)
2-28) SD -- D'Anthony Smith (DT, Louisiana Tech)
2-29) NYJ -- Mardy Gilyard (WR, Cincinnati)
2-30) MIN -- Jon Asamoah (G, Illinois)
2-31) IND -- Corey Wootton (DE, Northwestern)
2-32) NO -- Larry Asante (S, Nebraska)
ROUND 3
3-1) STL -- Aaron Hernandez (TE, Florida)
3-2) DET -- Chris Cook (CB, Virginia)
3-3) TB -- Cam Thomas (DT, UNC)
3-4) WAS -- Forfeited for 2009 Supplemental Draft Pick
3-5) KC -- Rob Gronkowski (TE, Arizona)
3-6) OAK -- Colt McCoy (QB, Texas)
3-7) PHI -- Reshad Jones (S, Georgia)
3-8) CLE -- Anthony McCoy (TE, USC)
3-9) BUF -- Tony Washington (T, Abilene Christian)
3-10) MIA -- George Selvie (DE/OLB, South Florida)
3-11) CHI -- Zane Beadles (G, Utah)
3-12) JAX-- Kareem Jackson (CB, Alabama)
3-13) NYG -- Sean Lee (ILB, Penn State)
3-14) CAR -- Mike Neal (DT, Purdue)
3-15) TEN -- Javier Arenas (CB/PR/KR, Alabama)
3-16) SF -- Jordan Shipley (WR, Texas)
3-17) DEN -- Syd'Quan Thompson (CB, California)
3-18) HOU -- J.D. Walton (G/C, Baylor)
3-19) PIT -- Myron Rolle (S, Florida State)
3-20) ATL -- Devin McCourty (CB, Rutgers)
3-21) CIN -- Major Wright (S, Florida)
3-22) OAK -- Rennie Curran (OLB, Georgia)
3-23) GB -- Dominique Franks (CB, Oklahoma)
3-24) PHI -- Brandon Ghee (CB, Wake Forest)
3-25) BAL -- Donovan Warren (CB, Michigan)
3-26) ARI -- Ed Dickson (TE, Oregon)
3-27) DAL -- John Jerry (OG, Mississippi)
3-28) SD -- Taylor Price (WR, Ohio)
3-29) CLE -- Rodger Saffold (RT/G, Indiana)
3-30) MIN -- Roddrick Muckelroy (OLB, Texas)
3-31) IND -- Jared Veldheer (T, Hillsdale)
3-32) NO -- Al Woods (DT, LSU)
ROUND 4
4-1) STL -- Mike Johnson (G, Alabama)
4-2) DET -- Joe McKinight (RB, USC)
4-3) TB -- Akwasi Owusu-Ansah (CB, Indiana-PA)
4-4) KC -- Dezmon Briscoe (WR, Kansas)
4-5) WAS -- Jevan Snead (QB, Mississippi)
4-6) SEA -- Sergio Render (OG, Virginia Tech)
4-7) CLE -- Toby Gerhart (RB, Stanford)
4-8) OAK -- Mike Williams (WR, Syracuse)
4-9) BUF -- Thaddeus Gibson (DE/OLB, Ohio State)
4-10) CHI -- Amari Spivey (CB, Iowa)
4-11) JAX -- Nawa’akoa Misi (OLB, Utah)
4-12) MIA -- Vince Oghobaase (3-4 DE, Duke)
4-13) CAR -- Eric Decker (WR, Minnesota)
4-14) TEN -- Eric Norwood (OLB, South Carolina)
4-15) SF -- Chris Scott (G, Tennessee)
4-16) DEN --Tony Pike (QB, Cincinnati)
4-17) NYG -- Mitch Petrus (G, Arkansas)
4-18) PIT -- Darryl Sharpton (ILB, Miami)
4-19) ATL -- Dennis Pitta (TE, BYU)
4-20) HOU -- Kam Chancellor (S, Virginia Tech)
4-21) CIN -- Andre Roberts (WR, The Citadel)
4-22) NE -- Jacoby Ford (WR, Clemson)
4-23) GB -- Jerome Murphy (CB, South Florida)
4-24) PHI -- Montorio Hardesty (RB, Tennessee)
4-25) BAL -- Jermaine Cunningham (DE/OLB, Florida)
4-26) ARI -- Dan LeFevour (QB, Central Michigan)
4-27) DAL -- Freddie Barnes (WR, Bowling Green)
4-28) SD -- Selvish Capers (T, West Virginia)
4-29) NYJ -- Myron Lewis (CB, Vanderbilt)
4-30) MIN -- Pat Angerer (ILB/OLB, Iowa)
4-31) IND -- Jimmy Graham (TE, Miami)
4-32) NO -- Brandon Lang (DE/OLB, Troy)
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Comments
Like Wootten and Veldheer a lot. By the 4th Graham's upside makes up for him being a project, but....
Spikes isn’t good enough in coverage to be a Tampa-2 MLB and I can’t see them going for a SAM that early. The board is pretty bare of guys I like in that spot, but Arthur Jones, Jerry Hughes and Ricky Sapp would be ahead of Spikes for me (as well as Weatherspoon who I doubt they’d take but fits Indy’s style better).
in addition with Everson Griffen on the board the Colts could pick up a top DE who would actually play while Freeney/Mathis were healthy, since Griffen is strong against the run.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
Not to mention, Spikes is a jerk...
One of the things I love about the Colts is how they don’t just draft on talent but character.
I don’t know why I am telling this to you Shake…
Bob Sanders is starting to make me rethink my SBNation ID!
by SupermanWearsBobSander'sPJs on Feb 10, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
First 2 rounds are good for the NYG's
Don’t like Lee…that’s about 2-3 rounds too early.
Pietrus is good, tho a guy that could play tackle would be better. If they move Diehl back to LG, that creates depth at OG with Seubert still there. #1 ‘need’ along the OL would probably be RT. O’Hara’s still elite, but maybe they could use a backup who can actually play center (probably a 6-7 round need tho..)
I don’t even see Ciron Black, I think he’s a better choice as he could be a RT and also some extra depth at OG.
Rectum? Damn near killed em!
Buffalo
Bills don’t need a DE (in the sense you might be thinking) or CB. Buffalo has McGee, Florence, and McKelvin. While not the greatest, they definitely don’t need a CB high.
George Edwards is the new Bills DC, and the team will run a 3-4. Schobel and Maybin are the likely OLB’s. Stroud is one DE, and Buffalo likely won’t use a high pick on another.
I can’t knock the Bradford pick, and the Cody pick makes sense. I’d take Selvie or Gibson.
This leaves Buffalo with a hole a OT. The interior of the OL, if healthy, is young and getting better.
changed their pick comments
to reflect their shift to a 3-4 and to get rid of the CB need. Thanks for the suggestions.
Chris Brown, of BuffaloBills.com, reports Buffalo Bills DT Marcus Stroud said he believes he can play nose tackle in a 3-4 defensive alignment. ‘I feel like as long as I can be healthy, I feel like I can do well in either system,’ said Stroud. ‘If that’s the case and I have to move to nosetackle, then I’ll do it.’
Have they officially said Stroud will be playing DE? Or is it still up in the air?
McShay, Todd McShay you hear me boy? It's me TJ and I'm coming for your damn job boy! Oh be scared, be very scared McShay.
by tj.hendricks on Feb 10, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Personally I think he is too small at 305 pounds to play NT
I’d want one a bit bigger. Plus he is also getting up there in age and may not last much longer.
I getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
Still up in the air
But it makes sense that he’ll move to DE. Edwards likes to play his ends two-gap, so Stroud is a good fit. His injury issues probably won’t allow him to play nose tackle.
Chiefs will not be taking a TE this draft
Haley’s O doesn’t need a prolific one, so if Shipley was available in the 3rd, I would do a backflip to land him as our slot receiver. Additionally, If Hughes is available at the 2a pick, I hope they would grab him rather than Mays, who has athletic freak/bust written all over him. I love Pouncey as our 2b and McClain with the #5.
Agreed
I don’t see the Chiefs taking a TE this high, if at all. I like all the picks except the 3rd round TE. Shipley-WR, Arenas-KR/PR/CB, Rolle-S, or M. Wright-S, would make more sense to me at this pick.
I agree that Hughes would be a nice 2a pick, but I would also be ok with them taking Cody with the 2a pick if he falls that far. I do not think he is 1st round material, but if he falls to us in the 2nd, that wouldn’t be so bad. I love, love, love the idea of KC taking McClain. I really hope there is a chance for KC to trade with Cleveland, if the Browns what Clausen ahead of Seattle’s pick, and then maybe we could add another 2nd or 3rd pick to our draft sheet. Anyways, overall not bad mock draft.
Agreed about Mays.....
I would much rather us take Nate Allen there. He’s more solid as a coverage safety…..
by Hail2DaChiefs on Feb 10, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
agreed agreed
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
Phins
very poorly done
3 new 2010 starting LBers via 2010 draft
Confidence breeds success, self-doubt breeds failure
how so? Do you think you'll take a 3-4 OLB in the first rather than Dez Bryant?
Besides that, you guys need a good NT (Houston) a rush LB because yours are aging (Selvie), and a 3-4 DE. So, any specific suggestions on how to improve it?
We have plenty of 3-4 DE. We need some ILBs too
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 10, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
OK
I’ve got you guys getting a WR in the first, a NT in the second, a 3-4 OLB in the third, and a 3-4 DE in the fourth. So besides the fourth round pick, what do you disagree with?
I just havent heard of many of the guys you have us taking
Safety isnt adressed, neither is ILB.
For every woman masturbating right now, there is a guy masturbating while imagining that woman masturbate.
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
by Patssuck456 on Feb 11, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
Tim Tebow isn't even a 4th round draft pick now?
It’s funny how NFL execs like Parcells and Brandt say he would be a first rounder, but bloggers think he’s a 1,000,000th rounder.
"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.
by craig in calgary on Feb 9, 2010 10:17 PM EST reply actions
Project QBs are typically drafted in the 5th or 6th round
Tebow has “elite intangibles” that lift his stock.
The Hawks aren't going to draft an OT who doesn't fit the ZBS
They’re not just going to pick the best workout warrior from the combine. And this seems to suggest that you want the Hawks to draft both Davis and Campbell:
14) Seattle Seahawks — Bruce Campbell (T, Maryland)
Seattle’s O-line was awful this year, and they go with the best O-lineman available. After workouts/the combine, this might be Bulaga, Campbell, or Williams, but for the time being it is Davis. They could also go DT, DE, or CB here.
Agreed
Based on Gibbs I bet we don’t grab one before the fourth. Too bad really, we could get some bang for our buck in the second.
I agree about Gibbs
But he is not in charge. I really think Pete learned something from his last stint in the NFL where an awful OL cost him big time. I would not be surprised to see Seattle trade back up if Brown falls to the late 1rst. They could trade their second and next years 2nd and grab him.
But isn't that exactly why they brought in Gibbs
I agree that PC brought in Gibbs to give him a good OL, but I also think he respects Gibbs enough to follow his plan as far as personnel goes.
I think trading up (or down) for Brown is a big possibility
Depending on evaluations, Campbell might be a possibility as well (although the injury concerns scare me). But Gibbs is in Seattle because PC wants him there. I’m pretty sure that PC doesn’t think he’s a better evaluator of OL talent than Gibbs or that a 330lb OT with weight problems and poor lateral agility is going to fit into a pure ZBS OL.
So, who do they take?
With Walter Jones retiring, they almost certainly take an OT in the 1st, right? So what do you guys think their picks would be? Morgan, Clauson, or Davis with the 1st? Williams, Bulaga, or Williams (Oklahoma) with the 2nd 1st? I understand they may trade down, but I’m not doing trades in this mock, at least not before trade rumors start
I would change the Hawks 4th round pick.
I don’t see Render as a much better Guard than Rob Sims, Brandon Frye, Mike Gibson, Ray Willis or Chris Spencer. I think Sims will be resigned. I think there is a need for a tall CB like Spievey or Murphy who could replace Ken Lucas and keep Josh Wilson as the nickelback.
Why do you have Donavan Warren falling to the 3rd?
Its not certain at all that they'd take an OT in the first
They brought in Gibbs who has very rarely drafted 1st-round talent to fill out his line (I think his first 1st-round OT pick was with Houston last year). The scheme requires really smart, smaller guys (he weighs them regularly to make sure they stay under ~300 lbs) who are really athletic (they’ve got do a lot of cut blocks, which can be very tiring). They also have to follow directions exactly, which means that he tries to use guys in later rounds who know that coaching/scheme trumps natural talent on the line.
Guys like Davis may be great in the man-blocking scheme but are too slow/unathletic/big to fit into the ZBS. Drafting a big road-grading mauler would be like playing a 3-4 NT as a 3-technique DT. Guys like Campbell and Brown may fit the scheme (being relatively lean, athletic guys), but Gibbs may not want to try to fight with a guy drafted in the top half of the first round. The Hawks OL does need to be replenished (I’m not sure there are 6 guys they’ll keep from 2009), but I think they’ll try to do it in later rounds.
As to who they’ll draft with the 6th and the 14th, I’m hoping they’ll look at QB (Clausen or Bradford), I think the pass-rush needs to be improved (Morgan, JPP, Price, Odrick, etc), they could use some upgrades in the secondary (Haden, Berry, Thomas, etc) and they need a couple more playmakers on the offense (a true #1 WR, etc). It sounds like they could use upgrades everywhere (which is probably true), but they also need pieces that fit the scheme the coaching staff wants to implement.
alright
I think I’ll change it to Campbell or Bulaga considering the scheme next time I update the mock, but when you guys had a horrible O-line and Walter Jones is retiring, I still see you all taking an O-lineman in the first.
stick with the tackle
With Hasselbeck’s recent injury history, l cannot see Seattle ignoring left tackle again.
I don’t know who this Gibbs guy is – a minor deity? – commander of nuclear missile silos? – but he keeps getting credit for being in control of Seattle. I have never heard of a position coach controlling the draft board. If the GM and/or coach want a left tackle in the 1st, that is what will be picked. The position coach’s job is to teach the players given to him.
Gibbs is the Godfather of the zone blocking system in the NFL
No rookie LT is going to keep Hasselbeck on his feet, but Gibbs has had a great track record of building very productive OLs out of late-round draft picks. In fact, he prefers late-round guys because they are likely to follow his scheme exactly. Almost everywhere he’s gone he’s been given an asst head coach title along with the position coach and he’s got a couple assistants working under him at Seattle. Gibbs was hired to bring his scheme to Seattle, not to be PC’s water boy. To think that PC or Schneider will draft an OT for him that he didn’t hand-pick is simply retarded.
That is not true from what I can see of the draft picks made while he was a line coach.
At Denver ‘95 to ’03 they selected 8 O Linemen. None of those picked after round four amounted to anything. Ben Hamilton C who is excellent and Cooper Carlisle G were fourth round picks. Cooper did nothing for Denver and has been okay at Oakland. Dan Neill G is excellent and was taken early in the third round, which for a Guard is early. Four guys chosen after the fourth round all failed with the Broncos. Trey Teague went on to play for the Bills. His one first round pick, the horrible George Foster T [#20 in ’03], finally crashed out in Detroit.
In Atlanta ’04 to ’06 they selected two Tackles. One in the fifth round and one in the sixth. Neither is more than a back up [Q. Ojinnaka and F. Omiyale].
At Houston ’08 to ’09 they chose D. Brown T at #26 and A. Caldwell C at #77. Those don’t sound like late round picks to me. Brown looks good and it is too early to tell for Caldwell.
So, unless Gibbs brought in a bunch of UFAs to man his line he didn’t do squat with his late picks. Fourth round Guards and Centers are not late round picks. They are hardly ever picked in the first or second rounds.
I am not disputing his skills as a coach but this nonsense of making an NFL Guard out of a garbageman is crap. He could not do it with his draft picks so why would anyone believe he could do it with a guy off the street.
And also for the record, his teams did select first round linemen…twice.
What are you refuting, my definition of "late round"?
Gibbs has had a lot of success building OLs and he’s seldom drafted in the 1st round (twice in 15 years). He’s also got enough seniority/autonomy over the OL that nobody’s going to stick him with a guy that doesn’t fit the scheme or his requirements. I don’t doubt that an OT would be a probable pick with the 14th or 40th pick, but there’s no guarantee that the 6th pick will be an OT (in a weak class of OTs, none of which really stands out). Hopefully we’ll also pick up another OL or two later in the draft.
We can argue about which picks turned out or not, or whether a 4th-round OG is a “late round pick”, but it doesn’t really have any bearing on this conversation. The Seahawks have a lot of needs and addressing the OT with the 6th overall pick in a crappy OT class is probably not the best way to go about it.
I am saying that Gibbs is no more successful with late round picks than any other O Line Coach.
I missed Lennie Freidman C/G who was chosen in the second round [#61] of 1999. He has been a career back up.
Now to be fair, Matt Lepsis was a UFA who turned into a solid starter for ten years, but a lot of the other guys just did not pan out.
But to bring it back to the conversation regarding who the Seahawks might draft at #6 or #14, I don’t know that Gibbs will come in and say, “Forget the O Linemen, I’ll pick up some guys on the way to the stadium.” If they see that one of the prospects might be the next Walter Jones, they will take that guy. It would be absolutely foolish not to.
Now, is there anyone who fits that bill? Bulaga is a possibility. Campbell or Brown might also be athletic enough to man that position in this type of scheme. You might have to take Campbell at #6 and Bulaga should be there at #14. That is a little early for Brown IMO. But who knows? They may think he is a perfect fit and take him at #14 if they cannot trade down. The #6 spot may be used for a QB if Bradford looks good and is still there.
I just do not think it is ridiculous to mock an LT to Seattle in the first round.
I do respect the opinion of the Seahawks fans on this issue as long as they don’t use the excuse that Alex Gibbs does not allow his teams to draft O Linemen in the first round.
Its certainly not ridiculous to mock an LT at #6
But I don’t think its as likely as other positions. I don’t have a problem with mocking an unlikely player to team, but it doesn’t make sense to mock a guy who doesn’t fit a need or the scheme (you seemed to suggest Davis originally, who doesn’t fit the ZBS at all). Saying the Hawks will pick “the best OT left on the board” ignores scheme, which is paramount in the ZBS. I don’t think there are any real “right” or “wrong” mocks at this point, just a series of suggestions of options that teams could take. Some are more likely than others. I think an LT with the #6 is less likely than one in the late 1st-3rd (but then I didn’t expect the Hawks to draft an LB with the #4 last year, either).
The Hawks will certainly need to address the OL in the draft, but its not the greatest OT class and there are a lot of other needs that could be better addressed with the #6 and #14 (like DL, secondary, QB, etc). Of the top tackles that do fit the ZBS, I think Brown would be a great fit for the Hawks (either trading down from the #14 or up from the #40). Campbell also looks like a good fit, but the nagging injuries worry me. An OL needs to act as a unit to succeed and it gets better the longer the same 5 guys stay on the field. We went through 4 LTs last year and were missing major pieces of our line for almost the first half of the season.
Gary Zimmerman
Gary Zimmerman was the rock of the Broncos’ 90s line. He was one of the prizes in the USFL supplemental draft along with Steve Young. The Vikings had to trade a lot to get him. Then the Broncos had to trade a first rounder to get Zimm.
You usually can’t go out and find a 3rd rounder who can play left tackle and become elite. It’s probably not impossible but it might as well be.
by medicineball on Feb 11, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
who's in charge
I agree with NorthLeft. There is nothing wrong with saying Seattle will find better needs or values at other positions. But I think it is a bit much to claim a tackle will not be picked earlier solely because Gibbs wants it that way. Even most head coaches do not have that power.
Bill Parcells demanded a lot of power in his later coaching jobs. In Dallas, he did not want T.O. But he got T.O., because Jerry Jones wanted him.
Gibbs
wants talent that fits his scheme. The offensive line is their number one need (along with defensive line). Walter Jones just retired. Whether it is with their first first round pick or their second, they will pick an O lineman.
As far as we know
Carroll’s got say in who he drafts and the GM is more a chief scout than a decision-makers. The only one who’s got a veto over Carroll is Allen’s right-hand man, Leiweke.
Most position coaches have some say in ID’ing players, but I’d imagine that Gibbs has more than most. He’ll probably ID a handful or dozen guys in the draft (from early to late) that he’d want and they’ll slot them somewhere onto their big board. They’re definitely going to draft a couple of OL this year, but there’s no reason to think that Carroll, Schneider or Allen will try to force talent on Gibbs that he doesn’t want. You don’t tell a mechanic to fix your car and then tell him what tools or parts to use.
Serious question
Has Gibbs ever had an offensive line as bad as this one in Seattle is? I see NL did the Gibbs history but I’m not sure how bad those lines were. People say the same thing about Shanahan how he has drafted two offensive lineman in round 1 his time in Denver. But when was Denvers offensive line really bad?
I myself don’t see Seattle going tackle at #6 but could see them trading down from #14 (if there is a willing partner) and targeting Charles Brown who fits the ZBS.
McShay, Todd McShay you hear me boy? It's me TJ and I'm coming for your damn job boy! Oh be scared, be very scared McShay.
by tj.hendricks on Feb 12, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Thats tough to say
The Hawks line was bad, but injuries and not getting/learning the new system made it even worse. With some good GM work, and a little injury luck, I don’t think that they are that far away from average.
I also think that we will trade down out of 6 or 14 for a late 1st and add a 3rd, plus probably some late or next year picks. That late 1st round pick would be perfect for Brown.
Do you have any team in mind to trade with?
I am trying to get an understanding of people’s logic when they project trades.
ie. Would the Packers be a likely partner for the #14 pick trade?
I’m not sure you could go much past Green Bay and still expect to end up with C. Brown.
packers
Are also looking tackle. They could trade up and take Brown themselves. Or by taking another tackle, reduce the likeliness that Brown falls.
I see Houston as the most likely to lose out on their players, whether it is Price (DT), Haden (CB), Thomas (FS), or Bryant (WR). So they might be a better trade partner, if they are willing.
Thats tough to say at this point
If Bradford or Clausen is available, you might see someone trade up to #6. It looks like there might be a run on D line, which would be a good place to trade out of.
not bad lions draft positions are right names are wrong though
particley CB in 3rd Donovan Warren is a hell of alot better then Chris Cook…
though i cant so warren makeing it out the 1st any way but he does in yous
Hmmm...
I don’t much like the Broncos draft, but I see where you’re coming from. I’d personally go: Bryant, Pouncey, Johnson and Hardesty or something like that. I realize that’s a fully offensive draft, but it looks to me as though that’s where the value is and every one of those prospects adresses a need.
"A player who conjugates a verb in the first person singular cannot be part of the squad, he has to conjugate the verb in the first person plural. We. We want to conquer. We are going to conquer. Using the word 'I' when you're in a group makes things complicated." ~ Wanderley Luxemburgo, 1999
How can you not like Chad Jones?
He is a much better S than Ken Hamlin.
Vikings draft
I don’t mind the 1st round CB pick for the Vikngs. But you have so many fabulous CBs still available at the end of the 2nd round I think the Vikes would select Donavan Warren or Brandon Ghee with their 2nd round pick as well. They can still grab a good guard in the 3rd round with Render or Petrus still on the board.
Yours is the only draft I’ve seen with the CBs rated this low. Good job for the Vikes though.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
I don't think we will pick a Cb in the 2nd
plus I really worried about Rolle. That one INT scares me. I think in the second we go Burnett, Rolle in the 3rd since nobody left fits what we need, and in the 4th as much as I like the sound of Sharpton, Troup is still on the board. We need a NT more than a ILB.
I getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
Pretty good for the Rams
Griffen instead of Tate though, we have enough 5-11 receivers. I like hernandez and Johnson in the 3rd and 4th. I’m kind of narrow minded about our needs so thats great.
Bengals
I dont like the Gene Atkins 2nd round pick. He would come in as our 3rd DT. But hey we have done worse before.
B+ for creativity
www.fantasydaddy.com
who would you take then?
I’m open to changing it based on what you think your needs are. Maybe safety or DE there and something different in the 3rd?
if it were me and the draft went this way, i would select...
Chad Jones in the 2nd
Taylor Price in the 3rd
then im not sure about the 4th round because by that time all the players would be different
www.fantasydaddy.com
by Joe Goodberry on Feb 10, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
RDE > NT for the Broncos.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Feb 12, 2010 7:36 AM EST reply actions
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