Suh's NFL Combine performance sets him apart from McCoy
by Mocking Dan on Mar 1, 2010 4:27 PM EST
in 2010 NFL Draft
15 comments
There are plenty of questions about the relevancy of the NFL Scouting Combine. But one consensus opinion seems to be that its most useful tool is to separate groupings.
In this year's draft, there seems to be no more prominent grouping than the one at the top of defensive tackle boards.
That would be Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh and Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy.
Suh clearly outmatched McCoy in the bench press, putting up 32 repetitions of 225 pounds to McCoy's 23. Suh also jumped five inches higher than McCoy. The vertical is used to show explosion and Suh's 35.5-inch leap is impressive.
Suh also timed as well as McCoy in the 40-yard dash. The former Cornhusker ran unofficial times of 4.98 and 5.07 seconds while McCoy ran a 4.96 and 5.14.
"When you start comparing numbers, which is what this combine is all about, in the weight room yesterday Suh did 32 and McCoy did 23," Mike Mayock said on NFL Network. "I was stunned that McCoy only did 23 reps. That tells me he hasn't been in the weight room the way he should have been over the last three years."
That may not be a totally correct statement. It's not as if McCoy sailed through Norman, Oklahoma on his natural gifts. But Ross Tucker of Sports Illustrated had some questions about McCoy on his Twitter page.
I'm all for enjoying the experience but I don't think (Gerald) McCoy's loosey-goosey attitude excited many D-Line coaches today," Tucker wrote. "There's a time to have fun and a time to be serious and take care of business. Plus, 23 reps is pretty weak for a stud DT. I think (Brady) Quinn got more."
The combine may be an overblown affair, but Suh's better showing in Indianapolis may have assured himself of not only being the top defensive tackle, but the best player overall.
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Suh's game is
based off of strength and pushing through line men. McCoy is strong but has more moves. Bench press dosen’t neccesarily show strength because im pretty sure that Dwight Freeney only had 21 reps on the bench press. They are both great talents but Suh isnt pulling away from McCoy because his combine numbers are better.
Are you
Saying that Freeney is strong or weak?
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
huge difference
Freeney is a DE. DE’s rely more on speed and technique to get to the QB, whereas DT’s need to rely more on power—which is especially true of a DT in a 3-4 system. In a 4-3 you can afford to have a DT who gives up some power/strength in exchange for quickness. But in a 3-4, you need that lone DT in there to be huge and hugely strong because on virtually every play he’s going to be looking at a double team and if he doesn’t have the strength to fight through it and push back the pocket, all the fancy-shmancy moves in the world aren’t gonna help him that much.
So especially if I’m a team that plays a 3-4 defensive front, ya, McCoy’s poor showing on the bench press (and weaker showing on the high jump, which tests leg strength and leg explosiveness), is a HUGE red flag for me.
Maybe Quinn should be moved to DTackle
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 1, 2010 7:19 PM EST reply actions
What about Cody. Did he finish his 40 today?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 1, 2010 7:50 PM EST reply actions
speaking of Cody
I heard he had 40+ reps on the bench
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Winner of the 2010 Chad Pennington Award
he's still running
actually, I think he ran a 5.64
and he didn’t bench
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB
I would hope that the NFL teams that are looking at drafting him will follow up and see if he does workout in the weight room.
If he does not do much lifting, is it possible some team might think he has more upside because he could put on more weight and become stronger? As compared to Suh, who some gurus might say is not going to get bigger or stronger?
Just asking the question, in my mind you would go with the guy who is already doing it now so you don’t have to worry about him putting in the work and filling out.
Where can you find workout numbers. NFL.com only tells top performers.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 1, 2010 7:58 PM EST reply actions
walterfootball.com
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB
freeney is strong
but sometimes lifting weights dosent necessarily show how strong a person is. That is like saying that brady quinn could knock over dwight freeney. That would never happen and just because someone lifts weights dosent mean they are the stronger person.
see this is what i think of the combine
IMO, these numbers only matter if they exceed or matchup with a highly productive college player. If a player sets all sorts of records and then puts up incredible combine numbers, then his stock should skyrocket. If a players puts up incredible combine numbers, but the production does not matchup, then i would have place a “project” label on that player and take a chance on them in the mid to late rounds.
Game Film
The differences between these players are miniscule and the combine (for me) does not change my perception. What is important is what the payers have on film and not how they perform in underwear at the NFL version of the Olympics. Okay, so Suh did more reps on the bench press and jumps a few inches higher than McCoy. Do these two measurables suggest than Suh is more likely to collapse the pocket better than McCoy as a pro? Ofcourse not!
I have tremendous respect for Ross Tucker as an analyts and being a former NFL player gives him greater insight along with access than I could never gain as a fan but games are played at the combined every year. Personnel types and GM’s will make a comment about a player they like in hopes that it will affect said players draft status and hopefully that player lands in the lap of the club that originally ’bad mouth the player". Members of the press core are “used” in this manner all the time and some know it and play along.
Ultimately, the teams that cosistently make mistakes at the top of the draft board (see the Rams and Raiders) fall in love with numbers and measureables while ignoring what the player has done 3-4 years in college. Suh and McCoy will enjoy outstanding Pro careers. I just happen to believe that McCoy has the greater up-side because 3 technique players that can rush the passer (general consensus) in the NFL are like gold.
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