Interact: What is the worst team in the NFL?

You don’t know how well or how poor the rookies but i believe they’ll do okay at least. Then theres a proven guy in Aaron whose ahead of schedule on his injury.

Along with a new, good D line coach I think early 20s

It’ll be about double the sack total. So that would have to have an impact, right?

I have never seen anything from harris in the 5-6 games of Denver I have watched to say he is anything special run blocking.

I didn’t say he wasn’t above league average for RT. He is definitely an above average player for that position. However, I see him at most being a middle of the road starter at LT (about league average at starter, which is still maybe better than an above average RT).

I never said that you were saying that Harris was the only factor. My only point is not even an all pro RT can have the sort of impact you are trying to say he had.

-Did the Injury to harris suddenly make orton start making bad decisions?

-How come if the offense couldn’t move the ball, they only average a couple points less per game without him, only about 30 more yards, and less than one less first down? sounds like the O was a little worse, but where is this collapse?

-The D after he was gone was giving up 5 more first downs a game, Giving up SEVENTEEN more points per game, and Almost ONE HUNDRED more yards per game.

Even if you want to assume that the correlation between Harris’ injury and a small decline in offense is causation (which there is little evidence to prove in of itself), there is nothing to suggest that Harris had ANYTHING to do with the collapse in D.

You want me to believe that because of these offensive ineptitudes, the defense got dominated in TOP and total plays. that just isn’t the case.

the D only was on the field for about 3 more plays a game after the injury, or one 3 and out series…but they gave up almost 100 more yards

-Total yards per play went from 4.3 to almost 5.7
-Sacks per game was cut in half (3.4-1.5)
-Went from an elite Run D (3.3 ypc) to a terrible one (5.2 ypc)
-Passing D let up one more yard per play
-They were even committing more penalties (1.7 more for about 20 more yards per game in penalties).

How is Harris a major cause of all of this? I dunno if even Peyton owuld have this major of an impact.

I agree. So far, the draft looks great but I still say its too early to tel with anyone’s class.

Preseason is still preaseason.

keep in mind, all he has done is perform in the preseason. We have a backup QB who will likely not make the team who always lights it up in preseason and has some skills…big deal…

When I say Troy Williamson had a great pre-season, I mean he performed in games, early in games, against the starters of other teams

so what? What evidence is there to show guys that light it up in the preseason end up haing good seasons?

A class that has every rookie play except one is a special first year class

yep. for a first year, it is no question special, but you were saying this draft class was special in general, but there is not yet enough evidence to warrant that.

That still makes the class good.

yes, that would make the class good, but it is nowhere guaranteed that all of those players will end up being good players in 3-4 years…the chances are decent, but there is still a good chance at least one of those guys doesn’t turn into anything great.

Just saying it was a great draft.

and so far, I agree but it seems like some jags fans on here seem to be overreacting because they have had terrible drafts in the past and are just putting this one up on this waaaay high up pedestal…maybe this isn’t what you guys mean, but this is what it comes off as.

Didn’t quite understand what you were saying.

but it started with

I’ll take our 2009 class over any of those teams.

and then I respond (somewhat jokingly because I though I knew what you meant to say)

You know what, I would take the browns team over the Jags 2009 Draft class.

then you said

What do you mean Browns team? Like, their team they have? Because if so you’re crazy. If you mean their class, I don’t see it.

and it is CLEAR you made the distinction between the Jags draft being better than the browns draft and the Jags draft being better than the browns TEAM. and you STILL said you would take your draft over the browns team…

now that it looks foolish because you realized you had a very limited knowledge of how many solid players the browns have, you are backtracking

Without MJD you would have the worst team in the NFL, that’s what I’m saying.

And no, we don’t hate the Jaguars, we just don’t think they are very good.

Its not like we’re going to lay down and die.

yeah, because the team would just give up…

I was commenting that the team would have extreme struggles and you respond with

haha thats what you think

and talk about how you will be fine because you have unproven backups.

instead of nick picking a fault or an over zealous homeristic reply.

which is a characteristic of many of the comments from Jags fans I see here.

The main point is that they aren’t as bad as people think either

yes, they are pretty good run blockers. Overall Football outisders ranks them in the top 15 run blocking Lines, but ranks them average at stopping negative yardage plays and plays on the 2nd level. excellent yardage in the open field, but partially from MJD.

A lot of O-Line stats do depend on the RB too. With an average RB in there, I think you would see the Jags drop out of the top 15 Run Blocking units statistically..so maybe slightly above average.

what happens if you put sucky running backs behind an average O-Line? You get Houston last year, who had a solid Run Blocking line with a terrible Running game…but at least they had an elite QB-WR tandem…Without that, I don’t see them winning a lot of games, which is the same scenario for the Jags without MJD.

I say he is in the second tier. He isn’t as good as Johnson or Peterson

you seem to really be contradicting yourself. you say you guys will be okay with unproven backups, then say that MJD isn’t replacable and is All Pro.

I think its more likely for one guy to get injured than all of those things you described playing out.

so its more likely for a guy with no injury to get a freak injury than things that have happened before (like Garrard being Mediocre, no pass rush, rookie DTs not making an impact) to happen?

This isn’t some far fetched scenario…this is a couple of little things going wrong.

Which is more likely, a freak injury to a QB or slightly worse play out of your QB, and RB, with the addition of Kampman not coming back healthy from the injury?

That would lead to that sort of scenario which is not far fetched (considering a: Kampan is past 30 b: So is garrard and he isn’t anything special c: this is MJDs first year as the feature, every down back) compared to a freak injury.

Pretty sure Jones-Drew was an underrated back coming out too, had a big impact his first year.

yeah, so are you implying that we should expect great things out of these guys too? MJD came from the PAC-10 while these guys come from FCS schools and have little experience. Yes, we have to wait for these guys, but lets not have heightened expectations just because we need to wait.

My point is your opinion, despite what you think, could be quite wrong.

and your opinion is equally as likely as being wrong…so lets just stick with the facts.

-Even when he ran routes at GT, he wasn’t very good or polished

-Even the best rookie route runners have a steep learning curve to the NFL and often don’t produce their first year.

-When you are doing 7 on 7 drills with no contact in minicamp, everyone looks good running routes because they run fairly straightforward ones and there is no contact. Minicamp fodder has to be taken with a major grain of salt, especially on offense.

First you compare him to Stovall, then say he is a slot player, but only for his rookie year?

Yeah, I don’t think he will play as much on the outside as in the slot. I may be wrong. However, I think out of all the broncos receivers, he is the most natural outside of the slot.

You also called Ryan Harris pedestrian?

what I mean by that is that He would be league average for a starter. League average is something like Jason Peters, or LJ Shelton when he was with the Dolphins, or Ross Verba with the browns…a guy that isn’t going to hurt you but isn’t that amazing.

Royal wil take the slot but he can very well be the 1st option more often than not