2012 Pro Bowl rosters and the NFL Draft

No Suh?

Huh!

Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf

by dbcouver on Dec 27, 2011 9:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Chris Gamble=Pro Bowl snub.

Panther Pride 'till I die.

by mangoes52 on Dec 27, 2011 9:37 PM EST reply actions

+1

by rscott94 on Dec 28, 2011 12:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

I'm with you, he isn't a flashy guy in a big market so he gets ignored

For educational purposes From Pro Football Focus on Chris Gamble

"Teams have given up throwing it in his direction, and he has been targeted just 55 times this season. That’s because when he is targeted he is allowing just 41.8% of passes to be completed (second only to Darrelle Revis among starters), at 12.3 yards per reception. The 70 yards after the catch he has given up is a league low among every-down starters and only Revis has a held opposing quarterbacks to a lower rating than the 47.8 Chris Gamble has. By contrast, Charles Woodson is allowing 62% of passes into his coverage to be completed.

"You know the new iPhone? It’s faster, more powerful and smarter. It’s revolutionary. Why can’t the quarterback be like that? Why can’t you be a big, tall, fast, quick, strong, smart, mobile quarterback who’s unstoppable?"
-Cam Newton

by carolinapillpusher on Dec 28, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions

the drafting spots of the RBs and ILBs says a lot

RBs are basically a dime-a-dozen: product of o-line and if teams are afraid of the pass. ILBs however should be showing traits of quality fundamentals of tackling or coverage, thus leading more of them to be chosen earlier.

and just to get in my thoughts on Pro Bowl Snubs, I’m pretty upset Charles Tillman over Chris Gamble… the dude had like 90 tackles because people know they can throw at him all the time

by vitzeng on Dec 27, 2011 9:39 PM EST reply actions

Phillip Rivers being in after is season

just shows how bad of QB play the AFC has seen this year. I think many teams who thought they had franchise QB’s in the AFC may be reconsidering relatively soon.

C'mon, join us, there's plenty of koolaid on the Broncos bandwagon for everyone!

"Yea, well, you know, that’s just like, uh, your opinion, man"
-The Big Lebowski

by DBroncs1414 on Dec 27, 2011 9:57 PM EST reply actions

You guys included?

I’m not gonna lie, the AFC’s been pretty defensively-oriented this year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Pats or the NFC win it again.

"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus

by Doc Scratch on Dec 28, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions

Are you serious?

I’m talking about some QB’s who are in their 3rd and 4th years who have not matured as quickly as the early parts of their career indicated they would, not guys who haven’t even started a full season’s worth of games.

C'mon, join us, there's plenty of koolaid on the Broncos bandwagon for everyone!

"Yea, well, you know, that’s just like, uh, your opinion, man"
-The Big Lebowski

by DBroncs1414 on Dec 28, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

Can't believe Manning got the spot over Romo. Romo had a much better season and it wasn't even close

ridiculous.

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 27, 2011 11:35 PM EST reply actions

Just because his last name is Manning and he was a first round pick

I hear fans from opposing teams say Romo is overrated, but I don’t see it. If anything he is underrated. Anyone who has watched the Cowboys this year knows we would probably be 1 and 14 at this point without Romo. Our defense sucks.

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 27, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions

I'm so sorry for your loss

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 27, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions

Do you honestly believe Eli had a better season than Romo?

especially given the fact that Romo played a good portion of the season with broken ribs?

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 27, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions

I think that final spot can be justifed to Eli, Stafford, or Romo.

Goes beyond just stats. Eli has nothing to work with. Worst running game, terrible OL, 3rd worst defense. Always has to play from behind because of said defense. Best 4th Q QB, most comebacks in the league, along with top 10 stats in all QB categories.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 28, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions

You can make excuse for any QB

and fact of the matter is Romo had to play many games with fractured ribs and a kevlar vest. That doesn’t exactly make it easy to throw the ball.

And I’m sure Detroit fans could think of excuses for Stafford. But fact of the matter is Eli was a significantly worse QB this year than either Romo or Stafford.

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 28, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions

nah. people sayin' that now because Eli had two bad games recently. I give Romo credit

for the fractured ribs. I said he was worthy of that probowl spot. Eli has had to fight through much worse. 2nd most catchable drops in the league, 32nd running game, one of the worst OLs in the league according to PFF and most peoples eyes, and the 29th ranked defense.

And even looking at the stats, can’t say Eli was “significantly” worse. Romo and Stafford both have a better TD: INT ratio. I’ll give them that. Eli has more yards, more pass plays of 40+ (most in the league) and 20+ yards (4th in the league). He’s forced to throw deeper because he can’t trust the defense. His YPA (3rd in the league) shows that. Stafford has 7.5 YPA to Eli’s 8.3….that’s about as “significant” regarding the risks they have to take, as you can get. Eli, through PFF, has shown to be the best passer under pressure in the league, as well.

So I ain’t buying anything that says Eli is “significantly” worse than Romo or Stafford, sorry. Both were higher than Eli in the fan rating, but he overtook them in the coaches and players poll. That should say something about how he’s seen amongst fans, and how he’s seen amongst the league.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 28, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions

Sorry buddy but ESPN's QBR takes a lot of that into account... including drops by receivers, sacks, etc.

And Romo kills Manning in the QBR ratings. Stafford also does better than Manning, but not as good as Romo.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2011/type/player-season

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 28, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions

1. QBR is a transparently bullshit statistic. It's probably worse than saves are in baseball.

2. Don’t sweat the Eli selection ahead of Romo. Rodgers isn’t going to play, what with the Super Bowl and everything. Or, failing that, Brees will.

"Lying is like 95% of what I do."
-Sterling Archer, Codename: Duchess

by Bob Genghiskhan on Dec 28, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions

It's only bullshit because you don't like the results

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 28, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions

No, it's bullshit because it relies upon a ton of completely subjective variables.

Stats have to be reproducible outside of the ESPN video room in order to be useful. Otherwise, it’s just wanking.

"Lying is like 95% of what I do."
-Sterling Archer, Codename: Duchess

by Bob Genghiskhan on Dec 28, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions

To put it another way, I'm part owner of the Packers.

My QB has had one of the five or so best seasons ever for an NFL QB. My agitas over his statistical signifiers is, to put it mildly, rather low.

"Lying is like 95% of what I do."
-Sterling Archer, Codename: Duchess

by Bob Genghiskhan on Dec 28, 2011 12:53 AM EST up reply actions

LOL QBR

by Yankees10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

yea.

Eli’s played 15 games with a broken team.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 28, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions

Can’t believe Manning got the spot over ~~Romo~~ Stafford. ~~Romo~~ Stafford had a much better season and it wasn’t even close

ridiculous.

ftfy

"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus

by Doc Scratch on Dec 28, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions

You're absolutely right

Stafford is the only other QB that I would give the third spot to other than Romo.

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 28, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions

as in if Stafford got the nod over Romo I could see the logic in that

There is absolutely no logic in Eli getting that spot other than his last name is Manning.

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 28, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions

which is why no one can take you seriously

there’s obvious bias there since you’re a Cattlepork fan.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 28, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions

+1

by rscott94 on Dec 28, 2011 12:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

LOL!

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 28, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions

Eli deserved the spot

he’s carried the team the whole year.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 28, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions

Hmmm

No Gamble? No James Anderson?

I heard Cam was the 1st alternate QB not sure if its true or not. But Gamble was a shut down corner this year…. I just don’t get it……

by rscott94 on Dec 28, 2011 12:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions

Don't sweat it.

Tramon Williams was one of the best CBs in the entire league last year and he was only an injury replacement. Like Hester said below, it’s a popularity contest with a lot of the players.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

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by Omaha Sun on Dec 28, 2011 2:22 AM EST up reply actions

I know that he pro bowl is one of the easiest ways to gauge elite players

A lot of it is popularity and names that fans have heard which might explain why there are so many first round picks instead of others Whig might debatebley deserve it more.

by TheHesterEffect on Dec 28, 2011 12:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions

So true. I just thought it was interesting to break it down.

Mocking the Draft: Talking NFL Draft all year.

by Dan Kadar on Dec 28, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions

Jaguar Pro Bowl Snubs

Paul Posluszny
Daryl Smith
Greg Jones

and Jones-Drew should be the starter.

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by rhettchrystal on Dec 28, 2011 1:53 AM EST reply actions

and Jones-Drew should be the starter.

Ray Rice leads the league in yards from scrimmage, has more receptions and has more TD’s than MJD. The most complete RB in that game right there.

Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.

Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang

by Mr MaLoR on Dec 28, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions

He also had a rookie QB that apparently didn’t know that he could throw the ball at MJD for the first half of the year.

MJD has something like 46% of the total offense for the Jags this year. That’s with teams stacking 8 or 9 in the box for the entire year.

Ray Rice is a very very good back, but MJD deserves to be the starter.

by mab0270 on Dec 28, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions

I think Rice’s numbers obviously show he deserves to be the starter. You make it seem like it is my problem that Gabbert sucks and that what goes on with you team diminishes what Rice has done this year.

Let’s put it this way, even with MJD, you are still a losing team. Without Ray Rice, Baltimore struggles to hit .500, even with the talent we have everywhere. Just like MJD is your best Offensive player, Rice is hands down our best Offensive player. When he goes, we go. When he doesn’t go, our offense doesn’t go.

MJD is a very, very good back, but Rice deserves to be the starter.

Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.

Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang

by Mr MaLoR on Dec 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions

I think you can only consider them snubs

if you would have started them over the people that were chosen, as well as the people that everyone else says are snubs. Like I get Ray Lewis is slightly overrated for the Pro-bowl spot by now, but you also have to consider the Jags record atm and their overall defense and how that factors in.

as for MJD being the starter, after reading your arguments below, it definitely sounds like he is the offensive MVP of your team but I think pro-bowl is more for those who have the most stats overall, not necessarily who is more crucial to his team’s success. Like Peyton Manning would not belong in the pro-bowl this year but I could see him getting a few MVP votes because of what a joke the Colts have become since losing him.

by vitzeng on Dec 28, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

Hey Dan, you need to update your list a little bit.

Vonta Leach is now in Baltimore as far as I can tell, and Richard Seymour is in Oakland.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Dec 28, 2011 2:23 AM EST reply actions

Ha, thanks. Muscle memory in my fingers, I guess.

Mocking the Draft: Talking NFL Draft all year.

by Dan Kadar on Dec 28, 2011 4:29 AM EST up reply actions

Aldon Smith...

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
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by manraj7 on Dec 28, 2011 3:34 AM EST reply actions

Huge snub. He is having a better year than Von Miller and is doing so without a starting role.

Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.

Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang

by Mr MaLoR on Dec 28, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions

This is crap Malor

Miller was having a much better season till he broke his hand. Its no coincidence that he hasn’t been able to get a sack since they put a cast on. The dude is playing with pins in his hand.

But besides that, Miller does much more then Smith does. Miller is an every down LB, Smith is nothing more then a situational player

C'mon, join us, there's plenty of koolaid on the Broncos bandwagon for everyone!

"Yea, well, you know, that’s just like, uh, your opinion, man"
-The Big Lebowski

by DBroncs1414 on Dec 28, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions

Ok? He is still having a better year than Miller.

Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.

Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang

by Mr MaLoR on Dec 28, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions

yes

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 28, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions

talking about rookie of the year or Pro Bowl?

they play in different conferences so it doesn’t matter for the pro bowl

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 28, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions

They also play different positions

Smith was put in as a DE and Miller as a OLB

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 28, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions

one could be a quarterback and the other a safety

still play in a different conference

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 28, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions

well you can compete for the same spot on the pro bowl roster if you play different positions...

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 29, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions

not normally, no.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Dec 29, 2011 7:43 AM EST up reply actions

can't

there was a typo in my previous comment.

P.S. The giants better win on sunday can’t stand them cowboys…

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 29, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

Smith has been a beast in rushing the passer and PFF said that if he had the same amount of pass rushes as Ware he would've had 2 more sacks than Ware...

He is a menace in the run game as well… He does everything better than the current starter and there is no reason why he shouldn’t be starting…

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 28, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions

So Aldon is nothing more than a situational guy huh?

If you truly believe that then the facts aren’t going to be kind to Von Miller in comparison.

Von Miller has played 873 snaps.
Aldon Smith has played 478 snaps.

Aldon Smith has 2.5 more sacks and the same number of passes defended despite getting half his playing time.

Both players are making 2 tackles every 26 snaps — but Aldon is making them even though the majority of his snaps are on passing downs where on the other hand teams are running straight at Von because he’s a liability against the run.

So why is it that Aldon is making tackles at the same rate in only situational play as a guy who is supposed to be an every down backer?

Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.

by Ougadas on Dec 29, 2011 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I'm going to have to disagree there

Miller is on the field for all downs I think and he does coverage. Aldon Smith is getting the sacks but not much more

by vitzeng on Dec 28, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

Thats silly

Smith does everything too just isn’t on the field for as much. He drops back and stops the run. The reason why he doesn’t drop back is because he is the best pass rusher the Niners got…

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 28, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions

well, you can say he isn't on the field for as much even though he does everything

or I can say he isn’t on the field because he can’t do everything. I’m not taking anything away from him but Von Miller really is more deserving and I would say the better overall player

by vitzeng on Dec 28, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions

Well you can watch him play...

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 29, 2011 1:24 AM EST up reply actions

I'm in the bay area and watch him plenty

Impressed but always waiting for more

by vitzeng on Dec 29, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions

Miller is a great player, yes, but like Tebow he is receiving a lot more hype than he deserves. At this point in the season I can’t even understand my people consider Miller to be better at Smith, honestly.

If the Steelers could steal either Miller or Smith, it would be Smith eleven times out of ten.

"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."

by Riddlah. on Dec 29, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions

It doesn’t matter if he had a better season than Von Miller. At all. Different conference.

"We have an elite pass rushing LB who likes to conserve electricity." -- Munchausen

by crooked5 on Dec 28, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions

I'm glad Pouncey earned his way into the Popularity Bowl again

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 28, 2011 8:36 AM EST reply actions

How I feel about Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.

Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang

by Mr MaLoR on Dec 28, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed and would be nice if Webb got some love. He wasn’t even an alternate. No TD’s allowed, 3rd in the AFC in INT’s, Along with 64 tackles. Sounds like a pro bowler to me. I wasn’t mad that he didn’t get in over guys like Champ and Revis, but think it’s crap he’s not even an alternate.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Dec 28, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions

Honestly, I would take Webb in there over both Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.

Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang

by Mr MaLoR on Dec 28, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions

Same here he’s had a better year than both, just doesn’t have the name recognition yet. Hopefully that will start to change.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Dec 28, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

People need to understand that just because a player is good doesn’t mean they’re deserving of a pro-bowl spot. No, most of the player listed in these comments don’t deserve a spot over the players who were picked.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 28, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions

somewhat OT question for all you draft experts

Someone wrote something on BTSC today about the expectations for a third round pick and it got me wondering what are the expected returns on draft picks by round?

I’d expect every first round pick is expected to develop into a starter at some point in thier career, even though I’d venture a guess that the success rate is closer to 50%. But to what about after that first round, is it more or less a crap shoot or to success rates fall each round?

Go big or go home!!

by average joe blow on Dec 28, 2011 11:41 AM EST reply actions

if your first round pick develops into a starter for 5+ years

then I’d consider it a monumental success if there is a 50% bust rate. But a top 10 pick has higher expectations: probably should become top 10 at his position within the next 5 years. This of course comes with the stipulation that your team doesn’t suck so much that you have no one even qualified to replace said person.

Anything in 2nd round, if you get a starter for a year or two I’d say is good. After those rounds, any reliable backup is great.

by vitzeng on Dec 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

Do some math

Your team will be short on players. You need 22 starters. If you assume a player lasts for 7 years, your first three rounds need to be producing starters and every round needs to be producing roster players. If the player career shortens to 5 years, you need 4 rounds to produce starters, and if it is lengthened to 9 years, you need 2.5 rounds for starters and 6 rounds for the full roster.

I saw some stats once about the likelihood of a player lasting a few years in the league. Don’t remember the details. But I believe there is a decent drop between the 3rd and 4th rounds, and then the 4th and 5th rounds. So a decent GM finds keepers in the 4th, a very good one finds them in the 5th-7th.

"Can't anybody here play this game?" - Casey Stengel, watching the 2011 Giants

by ct17 on Dec 28, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions

it definitely wasn't exact, just a guesstimate

but the idea is that you better strike gold in the first round, you should get someone solid in the second, and I’d say any starters past that are just extra lucky

by vitzeng on Dec 29, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

Here are the answers to your questions

Clicky Clicky

Several hours of good reading there (I’m not affiliated with them in any way.)

Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.

by Ougadas on Dec 29, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions

no love for the Texans o-line sad.

and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."

Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.

by Joe25 on Dec 28, 2011 1:35 PM EST reply actions

Mirrors a Gil Bradt study of Hall of Fame members

Gil Brandt did an article on HOF members a year or two ago as to what position in the first round a member was drafted. There was a direct correlation. Highest number in HOF were #1 draft choices.

by mauibroncofan on Dec 28, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions

No disrespect to either Brian Urlacher or Patrick Willis

but London Fletcher has again been passed over when he definitely deserves a spot on the Pro-Bowl team.
London Fletcher
163 Tackles (leads the NFL)
2 sacks
3 FF
2 Int.s
Patrick Willis (thru 12 games, he has been injured for the last 3)
93 Tackles
2 sacks
4 FF
1 Int.
Brian Urlacher
93 Tackles
0 sacks
3 Int.s

by ENsDad27 on Dec 28, 2011 9:28 PM EST reply actions

Fletcher gets no respect

Here’s another great stat. 83 career passes defensed. For a LB.

"Can't anybody here play this game?" - Casey Stengel, watching the 2011 Giants

by ct17 on Dec 29, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions

yea but he's played like 80 years in the league right?

Go big or go home!!

by average joe blow on Dec 29, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions

Lynch and Jennings

Marshawn Lynch fought for every yard this year. They measure yards after contact, but not yards after third contact.

I can’t believe Greg Jennings even made it over his teammate Jordy Nelson, much less the other WRs with much better numbers.

"Can't anybody here play this game?" - Casey Stengel, watching the 2011 Giants

by ct17 on Dec 29, 2011 12:03 AM EST reply actions

Marshawn did get jipped...

He is the next official RB on that list though, and since I dont suspect we will be seeing Matt Forte play you will still be able to see Beastmode run through tackles like it is his job in Hawaii

Make It Matter

by Seahawk Junky on Dec 29, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions

I don't like Lynch anymore...

why did he have to break the Niners records…

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 29, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions

I'm sad that Bruce Miller didn't get in as a FB

dude got converted to FB from DE

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Magic number For bye week (1 for Saints) For NFC West division title 0 (NFC WEST CHAMPIONS) worst seed possible (3rd seed)

by manraj7 on Dec 29, 2011 1:25 AM EST reply actions