Asking for a no BS assessment.

by jaffe28 on Feb 9, 2011 2:37 PM EST

For the Broncos and their fans, this offseason is critical. McD left us in total disarray with questionable talent and only five draft picks in the upcoming. While four of those are in the first three rounds, we could sure use some more quality competition come TC.

There are a few commodities on the Broncos roster with some trade value. Denver is going to have to go with Tebow for a season or two to see if they have something. That makes Kyle Orton the most talked about and controversial of those commodities. Over on MHR, the mocks have consistently suggested that Denver trades him for a 2nd rounder, giving the Broncos three 2nd round picks. I'm not so sure that Orton is that valuable. On the one hand, in both Denver and Chicago, he has shown the ability to be a consistent starter who can manage a team and stay out of trouble. On the other hand he has not shown a lot of big play ability, the ability to improvise, or consistency on 3rd down or in the red zone. Broncos fans, like many other fanbases tend to want to be optimistic in their fantasies. I know you guys won't be. What do you think the actual value of Kyle Orton is?

BTW, if you want to throw in an assessment of DJ Williams and his trade value I'd be interested to hear that as well.

Actually, love to hear ANY neutral assessments of the Broncos' roster:)

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The Broncos need picks and any way to get them.

Problem is, you guys are so strapped for talent that you quite literally can’t give anything up to get it, especially on defense. Elway’s got it right that the only thing tradeable right now is your first round pick. Trading back is probably the smartest thing to do.

by Doc Scratch on Feb 9, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions

However without a rookie pay scale

The second overall pick is going to be very expensive, and there really is not any prospect I can see that would make teams willing to give up everything for that pick.

Cassel out, Andrew Luck in!

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 9, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions

It's not Ditka is coaching anymore..

trading all his picks for a pothead :P…

We do have ~~Matt Jones~~ Ryan Mallett though.

Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.

by C Byers on Feb 9, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly I don't see a prospect worth jumping up for

There is some good talent, but with the price of the #2 overall pick I just don’t see it happening. Yes it would be great to trade out of however it takes someone else to trade with. Few years ago the Chiefs tried as hard as they could to trade out of the #3 pick(ended up with Tyson Jackson) and IMO that draft had better talent.

Cassel out, Andrew Luck in!

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 9, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

Rookie Salary Scale is the only thing really agreed on at the moment on this new CBA.

And I doubt that. A.J. Green is a very tempting prospect and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team like the Rams or Browns jump on him. Other teams like the Jags need CBs, locking up Peterson wouldn’t be bad either.

There are great talents and if that scale does happen, someone is going to want to trade up. I get the feeling it’ll happen.

As long as you leave Fairley on the board, I’m fine with whatever you do on the second pick. ;|

by Doc Scratch on Feb 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions

Depends where the market value is set

The market value is set this year with the likes of Kolb Palmer and McNabb.

Kolb will be the precedent. If the Eagles get a first rounder for him i would say it could be possible for Kyle Orton to get a 2nd round pick.

I truly view his value as a High 2nd/ Low 3rd Round Pick

by waterboy31321 on Feb 9, 2011 3:15 PM EST reply actions

Which player should set the market?

Completions—-Attempts——-PCT———-Yards/G——TDs——Int———Rat———Age 2011 season

A.——-644———1052—————61%————220.8——47———33———83————31
B.——-542———915——————59%———-256.8——36———25———85————34
C.——629———-1039—————61%———-259.3——41———21———87————28
D.——177———-285——————62%———-159.5——11——-10———82————-27

Today's mock draft: 2. Marcell Dareus, DT/DE, 36. Phil Taylor, DT 46. Bruce Carter, OLB, #67 Mark Herzlich, OLB #69 Jaiquawn Jarrett, S, (Orton) #184 Kendric Burney, CB, #194 Anthony Sherman, FB
www.worthingtonjohn.com

by Worthington on Feb 9, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions

the 27 year old who hasn't gotten to play much

and what is the W-L record in there?

by waterboy31321 on Feb 9, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions

player c pleez

2011 Dream Draft

1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Mikel LeShoure, RB
3) Kris O'Dowd, C
4) Davon House, CB
5) :(
6) Zach Pinalto, TE
7) Eric Hagg, SS

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 9, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions

3rd rounder for Orton.

Rick Ross is an intriguing NFL prospect because of his combination of speed and size. He projects as a Nose Tackle in the 3-4. His upside is the reason the Panthers will select Ross #1 overall in the 2011 NFL Draft.
-Todd McShay

by BlackPack-fan on Feb 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST reply actions

Doubt he's worth a ham sandwich with cheese

Maybe without cheese. His contract isnt exactly good and his ability is somewhat average ; he checks out as a possible starter and good backup; but not much more.

IMO

by Foilhat on Feb 9, 2011 3:50 PM EST reply actions

I agree his value is not good

but a ham sandwich? He’s at least a good cheeseburger with fries and a coke, maybe a mcflurry if a team is desperate.

But seriously, I think a team who is a solid QB away from playoff contention will look into it. I expect Minny, Miami, maybe San Fran to look into it. I agree he’s not the 2nd some say, and 3rd is most likely, but the contract isn’t bad and its not like you trade him and he’s expected to be your QB of the future (Kolb, Palmer, McNabb). He’s a guy you can bring in and groom a QB under him.

by DBroncs1414 on Feb 9, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions

Kyle Orton is scheduled to receive nearly $9 million in 2011 salary and bonuses.

Just poached that quote off of rotoworld. Sorry but to suggest a team would pay Orton 9 million dollars to groom their heir apparent seems ridiculous enough without mentioning that you believe they would throw in a 3rd for good measure. Why not go get Billy Volek to be your scrub/ great backup at less than half that price, and keep your 3rd round pick? And don’t tell me that a playoff team would be the difference. Minny, Miami, or San Fran is hardly going to make the playoffs because of Orton or Volek, they are scrubs. Great backups yes, but scrubs nonetheless.

IMO

by Foilhat on Feb 9, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions

Volek cannot compare to Orton

leave your homerism at the door. I admit Orton isn’t a QB that gets you excited, but he is above solid, and with a good run game/D he can easily get you into the playoffs, and if a team agrees with me thats worth the 9 mil

by DBroncs1414 on Feb 9, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions

I thought we were talking about backups

You see, you cant seem make up your mind. Is he a starter or a backup? There is no, if he has a great team, great defense, can run the ball yada yada yada… then Orton is blah blah blah. You can say that same weak garbage for every scrub QB to ever walk the earth. In my mind there’s only two types of starting QBs the really good ones, and the ones that you think might be really good. And then there’s backups. If you put Orton in the backup category like I do then it’s easy to compare him with Volek, who is known as one of the best backups in the league.

IMO

by Foilhat on Feb 10, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions

But the difference is Orton isn't a backup

he has plenty of experience starting, and has won (not in the train wreck of McDaniels) and he has also put up great numbers. Volek has done none of those things. Orton got a bad rep in Chicago, but name the last QB who hasn’t, even Cutler is getting one. While in Denver, Orton was a very good QB, and when healthy was keeping up with Rivers and his yearly pursuit of the fantasy football crown.

Nice categories too, I dont see though how a QB like Orton is put into it, he’s been a starter for most of his career. I said good run game/D because I don’t see him being the QB like Brady or Manning that puts the team on his back and can drop 30 easy and win a game 34-28. I know Orton can’t do that. But what he can do for a team is move the ball down the field and put a team in position to win, and for some teams that don’t have that but would like it, Orton’s a great option for them.

Again, thanks for your expert analysis, but Orton is beyond a backup. I would personally put him in a Jon Kitna like category. He’s good and is servicable, but I would also say he’s not the QB you can give a 7 year deal and make him your guy till he retires.

by DBroncs1414 on Feb 10, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions

Well if your're right and he is a starter

then the Broncos shouldnt have a problem getting a third for him. By starter I do not mean just a QB that starts but one that’s worth a draft pick and 8 mil in 2011. If some teams believes he is a starter and not just a backup with plenty of starting experience then dont worry the trade will go down for sure. I just dont think the guy is that good or will get that much better, thats just my opinion. It doesnt mean he’s bad, just not a longterm answer at QB thats all. Can he start for plenty teams? O yeah of course. But is that worth giving up a pick and taking on a not so cheap one year deal?

IMO

by Foilhat on Feb 10, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions

As a Bronco fan and MHR fan

one of the biggest things that pisses me off about both is how every fan hates DJ Williams. The guy had 119 tackles including 5.5 sacks, and I dont know how you can trade that when you have the last ranked D. We need him, maybe he’s not the vocal leader people expect out of there stud LB, but he gets the job done and then some. He’s a guy we need to keep especially since he is the only bona fide starting 4-3 LB on the roster

As for Orton I know you asked for a neutral assesment but I’ll throw out a 3rd rounder there. My bet though is we have a QB competition this season, and after that not sure how the QB position will be played out

by DBroncs1414 on Feb 9, 2011 3:52 PM EST reply actions

oh the DJ Williams thing pisses me off too

The Defense with no talent, and then they want to get rid of any talent we have just maybe for the fact they could get another draft pick to get excited about. The guy can flat out play, rarely gets hurt and has been through thick and thin with the Broncos. He makes mistakes just like the rest of us and hasn’t even been proven guilty yet.

I think everybody still has McDaniels in the back of their mind on all this character crap…don’t get me wrong character is great, but character doesn’t win championships…talent does and play on the field does.

by waterboy31321 on Feb 9, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions

well said

by DBroncs1414 on Feb 9, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not anti-DJ at all.

I was just curious what people outside of MHR might think of his value for draft picks. I highly doubt his trade value is equal to the value of keeping him. He does most things well though he has a couple of issues in his game.

Don’t see why you’d interpret asking about him as being anti-DJ. That he was one of two names I asked about specifically suggests that I think he’s one of our more talented players, don’t you think?

by jaffe28 on Feb 9, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions

no it sounds like you'd like to trade him

by DBroncs1414 on Feb 9, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions

I asked about him by name

because he is one of our most talented players. I’m just interested in knowing the value of a player like him in draft picks. Throwing him in was more about education than wanting to trade him. There is no way we can get equal value for him in draft picks. He is a consistently good player for the team.

You made an assumption. And to be trite, you know what they say about that.

by jaffe28 on Feb 9, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions

If I was the Giants

I’d trade a 4th rounder for DJ Williams. Might not sound like a lot but its pretty rare guys like Williams get traded for more than that. I think he’s more valuable to your team than being traded

As for Orton, I might trade a USB cable but only since I have others and don’t really need this one.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 9, 2011 4:15 PM EST reply actions

4th rounder for Williams?!? Man, I would give up a 2nd rounder for him.

"My youngest brothers think I'm a dorky older brother, I can't tell jokes because, 'I'm not funny.' They're much more street smart than I am. They can say whatever they want, cause 'they're funny.' I do pick on them. I try to be funny, but they don't laugh. Even if I am funny, nothing I say is funny to them because I'm just the older brother who's not that cool." - Joe Flacco

by Mr MaLoR on Feb 9, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions

I dont expect him to be traded, at all

consistent everydown LB. Not even saying cuz I like him as a player, just saying he’s good and what he provides for us is not worth a 4th

by DBroncs1414 on Feb 9, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions

I was so feeling the Bronco flow before McDebacle.

I def think getting rid of Cutler for all those picks was genius but then Mc showed his ars. Got rid of the talent and butchered a team with potential and now we have to start over. The good news: John Elway. I have always liked him because he is smart. I think this draft wil be big, I’m seeing a Falcons 08 draft coming for you guys. That’s something to be proud of.

Rule #1: Double tap.

by Ball Hawk on Feb 9, 2011 6:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions

As for DJ

Id say he’s worth a 3rd. Decent three year deal, and the guy is underrated for sure. Problem is nobody wants to give up anything for a ILB

IMO

by Foilhat on Feb 9, 2011 10:12 PM EST reply actions

That sounds about right for DJ's trade value.

Those folks that are mocking a DJ trade are putting him in the 3rd to 5th range. Definitely means we can’t trade him. He’s more valuable to the Broncos than a 3rd rounder.

by jaffe28 on Feb 9, 2011 10:32 PM EST reply actions

In response to foilhat :)

by jaffe28 on Feb 9, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions

The strange question I think

Is it may be possible that the Broncos actually release Orton. If they decide for sure that Tebow is the starter, which I would bet money on. Then it becomes trade Orton or cut him I think. I eliminate the possibility of the Broncos asking Orton to backup Tebow and make that kind of coin. So then it would become a matter of what draft pick is worth paying that 1.5 million bonus, and then possibly getting fully subbed on a trade.

IMO

by Foilhat on Feb 9, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions

There has been speculation that Orton could be released

There are a number of factors. Do they want a real competition. Will Orton be a problem in the locker room if he doesn’t start. I’ve even heard people suggest we should give him his release out of respect for what he’s done for the team (and to be fair, he’s been more bright spot than blight for a lousy team).

Another factor would be Orton’s willingness to work a new deal to be traded if it’s clear that Tebow will get the nod.

by jaffe28 on Feb 10, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions

Money is the only real factor there

There’s zero incentive for him to restructure just to be traded. He would just collect the bonus, then get released and then resign. And there’s little incentive for the club to pay that bonus and then release him, that’s why the deal is structured the way it is. Which leads me to guess that he is either on the roster the whole 2011 season or released

IMO

by Foilhat on Feb 10, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions

Orton is underrated

No one likes a QB without some magical “it” factor. But Chicago’s best team last decade was with Orton and he put up great numbers this past year. So he’s not Aaron Rodgers. Who cares. He’s a solid starter. Still, not sure you will get more than a 3rd for him.

Williams is making $6 million per. Tack on the driving record, it will be hard to move him. Needs to find a city with good mass transit. Also, you don’t have much else to play 4-3 LB.

Roster assessment: 4-3 will work for you. Ayers will be a great LDE.

by ct17 on Feb 10, 2011 12:28 AM EST reply actions

Oh, and Fox is a great defensive coach

NY would take him back in a minute.

by ct17 on Feb 10, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions

I've always liked Orton.

I’m a Chiefs and Packers fan. I used to tell my Bears fan friends that I liked their QB and they would laugh and have something bad to say about the guy. He’s a winner. He may not have won much this year, but wait until he’s dealt to a real team. He will tear it up. I’d give up a 2nd rounder for him if my teams didn’t already have their QB in place. I’d think the team that drafts Gabbert might be interested (Gabbert will be a stud, but he might need to sit a year or two). Think Arizona, Minnesota, or Miami.

I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
-- Source Unknown

by royaldaddy on Feb 10, 2011 1:31 AM EST reply actions

I like Orton too.

And if he goes elsewhere I’ll sure root for him harder than Cutler :) Looking like a 3rd round pick is about the average based on comments here so far.

by jaffe28 on Feb 10, 2011 1:39 AM EST reply actions