Senior Bowl: Kellen Moore's flaws being exposed

by Dan Kadar on Jan 24, 2012 3:42 PM EST in 2012 Senior Bowl

Senior Bowl practices would either be a boon for Boise State quarterback Kellen Moore, or expose him to NFL scouts. Monday's initial practice received almost no praise from those in attendance. Even NFL scouts. Here's what one told Omar Kelly of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel:

"He looks like a high school quarterback, skinny arms. Has a weird deliver. Left handed, the ball spins the wrong way,"scout on Kellen Moore
— Omar Kelly (@OmarKelly) January 23, 2012

According to those there, Moore had a better second day of practices today placing the ball nicely on a few occasions. But his lack of arm strength continues to be a concern. From Tony Pauline of Sports Illustrated today:

QB Kellen Moore of Boise State continues to struggle. The speed on his throws is notably slower than any of the other signal callers at practice this morning.

Not good. What's more pressing about these criticisms is that none of them are centered around Moore's height, which most pointed to during the season as a major negative. A few more thoughts on Moore's struggles after the jump.

Another rough practice for Kellen Moore - Just doesn't get any power from his legs, kills his velocity and, more importantly,accuracy.
— Josh Liskiewitz (@JoshLiskiewitz) January 24, 2012

Kellen Moore's arm being exposed today. Slow on outside deep throws, floating passes deep. Kirk Cousins does look crisp, driving ball well
— Eric Galko (@OptimumScouting) January 24, 2012

From Mike Tanier of Football Outsiders (via Yahoo! Sports):

Kellen Moore (QB, Boise State) looks out of place against this level of competition. Moore's deep passes sailed all morning, and some of his throws on out-routes arrived at the receiver's knees. Worst of all, Moore looks stiff and awkward when dropping and setting.

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Spins the wrong way?

Like spins in the opposite direction? How is that possible?

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 24, 2012 3:51 PM EST reply actions

Is this a serious question?

Because he is Left Handed, it spirals the opposite direction of a Right Handed QB,

Spins the same way it does for Vick, Same way it did for Brunell and Young and every other LH QB

by GracieKal on Jan 24, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions

What does that matter?

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 24, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions

So why is that a bad thing?

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
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by manraj7 on Jan 24, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions

Rather

It’s not spinning the wrong way it’s spinning the opposite way (of a rightie). So, yes, that was a serious question.

"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Jan 24, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions

Sounds like you are asking how it is possible for the ball to spin the opposite direction

Seems obvious.

And it shouldn’t matter, as you can see from my comment below.

This coming from a Left Handed Former QB

by GracieKal on Jan 24, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions

So He's just like Tim Tebow!

Draft him now!

by Skrappy on Jan 25, 2012 3:33 AM EST up reply actions

The Scout that talked about the way the ball spins as a negative

needs to be fired immediately, pretty sure that isn’t a big deal, and if anything would take a WR 1 practice to get used to.

by GracieKal on Jan 24, 2012 4:24 PM EST reply actions

Trooth.

It’s amazing how so many idiots manage to hold onto NFL jobs.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Jan 24, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions

i believe jerry rice has said that switching from a right handed qb to a lefty isnt a big deal at all….then again, that IS jerry rice

by statue_left on Jan 24, 2012 4:56 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

He just made a left handed ball boy throw him the ball when everyone else was on break

when everyone else was taking a break

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76

by manraj7 on Jan 24, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

It's not. It's different for say a punter who's a lefty but not for a pass.

Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.

by Fozzyboyd on Jan 24, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

LEAVE KELLEN MOORE ALONE

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76

by manraj7 on Jan 24, 2012 4:39 PM EST reply actions 9 recs

gross

Mocking the Draft: Talking NFL Draft all year.

by Dan Kadar on Jan 25, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions

he's a she now

Turf Show Times writer and a proud rams fan.
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for Tim Tebow to complete a pass against the Cover-2" - Jesus Follow @jmwehrle

by Josh Wehrle on Jan 25, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions

she's a he again.

or something.

by psknapp on Jan 25, 2012 7:39 AM EST up reply actions

Either way, gross.

Mocking the Draft: Talking NFL Draft all year.

by Dan Kadar on Jan 25, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions

So basically his delivery is limiting his arm strength?

and he doesn’t have a lot of body mass?

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76

by manraj7 on Jan 24, 2012 4:42 PM EST reply actions

I've always thought arm strength was an overvalued characteristic of QB prospects

Sure, its awesome to watch Cutler, Stafford, and the like rocket launch the football up and down the field. And yea, its a great bonus if they have that extra oomph. But there’s definitely a place for weaker-armed, accurate, and smart QBs in the NFL. I haven’t watched much of Moore this year, but I’ve always been intrigued by what I’ve read about him. Is his arm strength really so bad that its that much of an issue?

by brightshinies on Jan 26, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

Arm strength is more than just being able to bomb it 60 down the field off your back foot.

It also allows you to put a wider range of arcs and speeds on the shorter throws. There are some short throws that average armed QBs simply cannot make because they can’t lay it out flat for fifteen yards. Having the option to lob up a touch pass over a DB or lay it flat with speed to sneak past a DB is another facet of having a strong armed QB.

It’s not just about how far it goes in the air, but also how it travels in the air, especially if you’re trying to place the ball in places where no defender has a shot at it consistently.

"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson

by Mavyrk on Jan 26, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions

I've never really cared about his height

but his arm strength is bad.

Now one review did mention Cousins and I would like to pick him up. Give me him, Weeden or Foles and I will be a happy guy.

Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.

by Fozzyboyd on Jan 24, 2012 5:15 PM EST reply actions

Kellen

…had like a 75% career completion rate… I don’t think his lack of arm-strength bothered his accuracy too much. Just like the rest of us, scouts can have preconceived ideas and look for things to confirm their ideas rather than coming in with a blank sheet and an open mind. It seems there might be some of that going on here.

-peter

by PeterF on Jan 24, 2012 5:18 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions

Nothing against you

But I hate when people use completion percentage as an indicator of accuracy. Not that Kellen isn’t accurate(that’s probably his biggest strength) but that 75% has nothing to do with it.

by fiendishdr.wu on Jan 24, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions

Out of curiosity

Is there a numerical stat that would be a better indicator of accuracy?

by brightshinies on Jan 26, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions

Completion percentage is barely related to accuracy

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 24, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions

He's Chad Pennington in Drew Brees' body

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 24, 2012 5:29 PM EST reply actions

Or Chase Daniel's

2012 NYG mock - 1: Chase Minnifield CB, 2: Kevin Zeitler G, 3: A.J. Jenkins, WR, 4: Neiko Thorpe S, 5: Brandon Bolden RB, 6: Rishard Matthews WR, 6: some random LB, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Jan 24, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions

Chase Daniel's much bigger

Height might be similar, but size and strength are different

by GracieKal on Jan 24, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions

Daniels is a thick boy

and has a much stronger arm. That guy could wing it in college and I’m saying that as a Jayhawk fan.

Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.

by Fozzyboyd on Jan 25, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions

Maybe His mechanics are bad

by Touhue Cha on Jan 24, 2012 7:00 PM EST reply actions

I'll take his game tape over Senior Bowl practices

There is no doubt that his arm strength will limit him in the NFL. But if you watch what he did at Boise State, he showed talent. It seemed like 8 different guys caught the ball every game. A common complaint about college QBs is their lack of progression through reads; Moore had no problem finding and throwing to the 5th read, even if it was a freshman TE in one of his three snaps in the game. And last year, he had no problem hitting Young in full stride on those deep throws that helped Young vault into the 2nd round.

Of course, seam routes and skinny posts can get scary if you can’t get the ball in quickly.

I’m watching the practice tape from NFLN right now. Moore just dropped a deep ball in to the Cal WR in stride.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Chase Minnifield CB, 2: Kevin Zeitler G, 3: A.J. Jenkins, WR, 4: Neiko Thorpe S, 5: Brandon Bolden RB, 6: Rishard Matthews WR, 6: some random LB, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Jan 24, 2012 9:22 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

Agreed, I find it funny when people rely on a week's worth of practices

Over years of actual game film. Any scout with real experience knows better.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 24, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions

Well there's years of game film

of him having a weak arm, so not sure what your saying there.

flayed ones stealth mode

"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."

by mob16151 on Jan 24, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not saying his arm is strong

I’m just laughing when “scouts” claim they can accurately judge a players skill from one week’s worth of practices with players he’s not used to. Nothing against Dan, who knows his stuff.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions