On Blaine Gabbert, and Why the Jaguars Won't Draft a Quarterback in the 2012 NFL Draft
by Matthew Fairburn on Jan 3, 2012 1:13 PM EST
in Mocking the AFC South
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Everyone is a scout these days. But instead of projecting on upside, fans, media and blogs across the country think that they can look into a crystal ball and predict success, which is near impossible to do with any sort of certainty. Too many variables are at play.
More frustrating than everyone's misinterpretation of scouting, is the inability of so many to form their own opinion. Such was the case with Blaine Gabbert this season. As soon as Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski ripped into Gabbert on Monday Night Football against the Ravens, it became the cliche and lazy analysis of the masses. Phrases such as pocket presence, "you can't coach courage" and reading the defense, were being thrown around ad nauseum to describe the play of Blaine Gabbert, with very few people actually understanding Gabbert's situation, or the situation of the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Now, many are speculating that Gabbert was bad enough for the Jaguars to considering selecting another quarterback seventh overall in the 2012 NFL Draft.
The analysis is lazy, and after the jump, I'll explain why.
Blaine Gabbert's rookie season was anything but strong. Let's get that out of the way first and foremost. I'm not here to tell you that Gabbert is the next Aaron Rodgers. But I am also not ready to write him off as a bust. His circumstances, surrounding talent and the fact that he is just 22 years old, are all indicators of just how early it is to be calling No. 11 a bust.
Gabbert's rookie season did not go as planned. For starters, the offseason was shortened by the lockout. (Before you go and mention that Andy Dalton and Cam Newton didn't seem to mind the short offseason, remember that Dalton had four years of experience in a pro-style offense and A.J. Green at his disposal, while Cam Newton was the first overall pick, and was working with Steve Smith and coordinator Rob Chudzinski.) Coming out of a spread style offense after just three college seasons, Gabbert was expected to need some time to sit and learn the ropes before being thrown to the wolves. Not only did the shortened offseason not give him much time, but the failures of David Garrard and Luke McCown forced Jack Del Rio to start Gabbert far earlier than he would have liked to.
So what, right? Plenty of quarterbacks have been thrown into the fire early in their careers, and done just fine. But every situation is different. In addition to the fact that Gabbert was, and still is, considered a very raw prospect, the former Missouri Tiger was thrown under center for a team that had nothing to work with at wide receiver. And I mean nothing. Marcedes Lewis, the former Pro Bowl tight end of the Jacksonville Jaguars, was dropping balls like it was going out of style. Mike Thomas, who signed a contract extension earlier this season, went into the tank after cashing in, running lazy routes and showing no ability to get separation. Aside from those two familiar names, the likes of Chastin West, Jarred Dillard, Jason Hill and Cecil Shorts could be found running routes for Blaine Gabbert.
At times did Blaine Gabbert show terrible pocket awareness? Yes. Did he even look timid, or everyone's favorite "scared," at times? Sure. But the fact of the matter is that, far too often, nobody was open for him to throw to. The receivers couldn't get separation. Period. So, yeah, a rookie quarterback thrown into the fire far earlier than expected, with a short offseason and coming from a spread offense, looked a bit rattled in the pocket when nobody was open and the defense was closing in. That seems understandable to me.
The fact that Gabbert's pocket presence, which was a huge weakness this season, was harped on by the media is not the problem. The fact that pocket presence (or playing scared as everyone likes to put it) is an issue that cannot be corrected. Courage can't be taught. Oh, really? You think Tom Brady was born the magician he is in the pocket? Do you think Drew Brees came into the league, knowing what he does now about feeling pressure? That skill, like any other, is developed. And, in fact, Gabbert improved on it quite a bit over the course of the season, despite what many will lead you to believe. Confidence breeds pocket presence, in my opinion. The more confident Gabbert is in himself and his teammates, the more comfortable he will be in all facets of his game, including pocket presence. But until the box score shows improvement, the media won't recognize any improvement in Gabbert's game, because that would take work.
The coaching situation is another that was far from ideal in Jacksonville. Jack Del Rio, who was fired midseason, is not much of an offensive mind, and rumors of his perceived, lazy blame-everyone attitude make him a tough match for a rookie quarterback.
This offseason, Gabbert will get the chance to reset. And he will do so with a new coaching staff, which will likely be a huge upgrade over his first group of coaches. Gabbert will get the benefit of a full offseason with this new and improved coaching staff, and will likely have that benefit alongside of some new offensive weapons to work with.
If there is one positive to hold onto with Blaine Gabbert, it is that he has said and done all the right things off the field. He was the first to arrive at the team's facilities after the lockout, he always takes full responsibility for his performances and he has shown a competitive fire that his team rallies around.
Some have used the the phrase "sunk cost" to describe Gabbert's future with the Jaguars in economic terms. And while the economic principle is sound, especially under the new CBA, the Jaguars need to look at this situation from a football standpoint first and foremost, as the folks over at Jaguars Blog have noted. Unless Gabbert had proven to be a major locker room concern, ala Ryan Leaf of JeMarcus Russel, how could a team that drafted Gabbert in the top ten less than a year ago, with the belief that he would develop into a franchise quarterback, just give up on him after a pedestrian rookie season under difficult circumstances?
He deserves time.
Bringing in a new quarterback is not going to fix the problems with the Jaguars. Just as we can't predict the success of Blaine Gabbert, we cannot predict the success of Robert Griffin III, or Landry Jones. Gabbert has a world of upside, and without surrounding him with weapons, he is not getting fair shot at that.
Gene Smith, the Jaguars' general manager, understands that. He is building this team with an eye for the long term, being patient in the short term. Smith knows that will not always be a popular approach, but he is not one for knee jerk reaction. The situation with Blaine Gabbert will be no different.
The Jaguars are going to give Blaine Gabbert the offseason to develop, and next season, they hope to see a much improved product on the field, and I believe they will. Nobody is questioning the fact that work has to be done. But there is a plan, for both the Jaguars and Blaine Gabbert.
Give it time to play out, and then judge.
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Very fair analysis of the Jaguars pass offense situation.
Life without knowledge is death in disguise
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by Zoltan from Budapest on Jan 3, 2012 1:20 PM EST reply actions
Same
Great write-up. Gabbert ain’t going anywhere for now atleast.
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As a Jaguars fan
This was spot on. Great write-up.
Gabbert needs a full offseason to develop, & having better coaching/WR’s will certainly help the passing game. It’s just that simple folks.
I do believe the context of my blog post was erroneously stated
What I’m saying here is not that the Jaguars should, at all costs, replace Blaine Gabbert as the future franchise quarterback. I am not saying they should absolutely draft a quarterback in the first round. What I’m saying is that what was given up for Gabbert and the money he’s been paid has no place in the discussion. If Gene Smith believes one of the quarterbacks on the board at the Jaguars’ pick is both the best player available and an upgrade on Gabbert long-term, he should absolutely pick that quarterback. If not, he should not pick that quarterback.
That’s the paragraph that states my position on Gabbert and sunk costs. I do not believe it would make sense at this point for the Jaguars to give up on Gabbert. I DO believe, though, that if Gene Smith uses the fact that he gave up a first and second-round pick on Gabbert to make his decision, it would be a mistake. Smith should use his play on the field as a decision-making factor and nothing else.
Gabbert’s play on the field dramatically improved once Dirk Koetter assumed Quarterback Coach duties, and he absolutely earned the chance to take a step forward as the starter in 2012. That’s my viewpoint. I hope the context in which my post was quoted does not get in the way of that. Thanks for linking, though, and I very much enjoyed the write-up.
Editor of JaguarsBlog
Follow me on Twitter @CaliforniaJag and @JaguarsBlog
I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement
“Smith should use his play on the field as a decision-making factor and nothing else.”
If he uses nothing other than his play this past year, you have to find another guy. What scouts/GM’s use is their knowledge to project what the future will bring from the player. And that encompasses a lot of factors other than his play on the field. His work ethic, the time he puts into film study, his potential etc…
His play projects future success
My point was that the money and picks sunk into Gabbert already shouldn’t mean anything in terms of deciding whether to stick with Gabbert or move on. Guess I should have worded my post a little more concisely; my apologies.
Editor of JaguarsBlog
Follow me on Twitter @CaliforniaJag and @JaguarsBlog
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 3, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Completely agree
I didn’t mean to take your post out of context. Just wanted to note that while economically there really is no reason to stick with him, as your post noted, it is the football reasons that need to come to the forefront, which you also noted. I was hoping to show that I wasn’t trying to make the argument that he should be given time just because he was a high draft pick. Thanks for the read and the feedback!
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by Matthew Fairburn on Jan 3, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions
There was never a chance that the Jags would draft a QB high this year
Blaine’s numbers were fairly normal for a rookie starter. The average over the five seasons prior to this year for rookie starters – 374 attempts, 210 comp, 55% acc, 2360 yds, 70 passer rating, 11 Td, 13 Int. Gabbert – 413 att, 210 comp, 51% acc, 2235 yds, 65 pass rating, 12 Td, 11 Int.
He was younger than pretty much all of the others, except for Matt Stafford, when he started, missed training camp as mentioned, and almost certainly had the worst collection of receivers of any first year quarterback on the list. Add in the internal situation in Jax, with the coaching staff all working for themselves, the team being sold, constant attendance pressure, and a couple players who live on the west coast (Lewis and Thomas) who flat out quit when they signed their contracts, (probably with the hope the team would move).
What is overlooked with Gabbert, is that even if he is just average as a quarterback, he has so much more going for him off the field than any of the other rookies (or probably any player in the league, period), he doesn’t have to produce at as high a level to be valuable. Shahid Khan has international aspirations for NFL football from the sound of it, and Gabbert is as close to being a 22 year old David Beckham as you’re going to find on the planet. Now, and for the forseeable future. I don’t think that fact is lost on the Khan’s, and may even have played a part in Gabbert’s selection at the draft.
Good Stats
Good post, but I don’t agree with you about Lewis. He didn’t quit, he just played really poorly. Actually, check that, he just caught the ball really poorly. He blocked hard every time he was asked to, held his blocks as long as he could, and blocked downfield as well. There wasn’t any quit in him at all, just stone hands.
Beckham? seriously
Get past the long blond hair. Beckham was groomed from an early age to be the future of English soccer. Gabbert was drafted for his upside and measurables more than anything else, especially any perceived rock star qualities. He’s a simple kid from Mizzou who likes fishing and grilling out. I cannot say that I have heard of him partaking in whatever nightlife there is in Jacksonville.
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Beckham was never a big party guy
No one knew him when he was 21. He was highly rated as a high schooler in English football, but no higher than Gabbert was coming out of high school in the U.S. as the top rated pro style QB. You mistake the fact that Beckham married a Spice Girl with him being a party animal. Never the case. Becks is as down to earth and clean living as any pro athlete on the planet. Always has been.
no one knew him til he was 21?
He signed a futures contract with Manchester United when he was 14. Maybe no one in Fargo, North Dakota knew him, but to say no one knew him is patently incorrect.
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That's how they do it in World Football
Some kid just signed with Real Madrid at the age of 7, I believe. But Becks didn’t become a regular with Man U until he was about the age that Gabbert is now. I’m sure if it was allowed, an NFL team would have signed Gabbert to a “futures” contract when he was 15 or 16 and dominating the Nike and Scout Combine camps. He was generally considered the best prospect at the position in the country at the time, as Beckham was considered the best prospect at his position in Great Britain at a similar age. There are a lot more similarities than differences between the two, I would say. Including their personalities. Other than the fact that Gabbert is about 6 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. Who else has that kind of global marketing potential? Certainly not Newton who is like an oversized 12 year old with a learning disability. who looks like he’s chewing on a mouth full of marbles.
Beckham was a regular with Man U when he was 18, and was on the national team at 19
You had me til the Cam Newton comments. No need for that, and I think Cam is pretty well spoken. Perhaps he’s a little overcoached and too polished to the point he comes across as arrogant, but marble mouthed? Hardly.
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Untrue and untrue
Becks didn’t become a first team regular with Man U until the 1996-97 season, and with the England team until 1997. He was born in 1975, you do the math.
Watch Newton in the team interviews, he is excrutiating. He goes with this bovine cud chewing routine for about a minute if he doesn’t think the mike or cameras are on. He has that middle aged blond P.R. hack with him at all times when there are reporters around. Like having Ilsa, She Wolf of the S.S. as a personal nanny. The guy is borderline retarded and chock full of emotional problems waiting to bust out. They will at some point.
I don't think Gabbert is the answer. But i never in my posts gone past that and said "what should be done".
I did say that Gabbert should not be safe from fair evaluation. And it is misleading to tell people that Andy Dalton played in a pro style offense when he infact played in a read option spread offense.
Gabbert’s rookie season did not go as planned. For starters, the offseason was shortened by the lockout. (Before you go and mention that Andy Dalton and Cam Newton didn’t seem to mind the short offseason, remember that Dalton had four years of experience in a pro-style offense and A.J. Green at his disposal
Dalton played in a spread read option offence. The play ratio may have been more pass oriented but still the same offence. The same offence as Blaine Gabbert
Dalton is two years older than Gabbert
I think he started all four seasons at whatever rinky dink spot he played. Then he was installed as a starter from the moment he showed up in camp. He is pretty much maxed out, whereas Gabbert has huge upside remaining.
It really isn't about how many seasons they played. The issue is can he take a instinctive trait that is giving him a issue and turn it into a strenght?
Gabbert played 3 years at Mizz
Dalton played /started all 4
The point is they played in the same type of spread offence. Daltons was more red option oriented with more passing ratio. But it was still a spread….
The question is can a quarterback take a instinctive weakness and turn it into a strenght.?
Now i am not saying they should give up on him. Infact i AM infact saying they are stuck with him. But my point is it was a mistake in the first place.
I find it hard to believe a person can take a instinctive oriented trait that is a weakness and turn it into a that is a strenght. And feeling the rush and not looking at it is a “reaction”. You can’t teach instinct
flawed logic
Can’t teach instinct? Is it really instinct or is it knowing what you’re in for and being prepared for it?
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flawed logic
Can’t teach instinct? Is it really instinct or is it knowing what you’re in for and being prepared for it?
it is a instinctive trait to “feel pressure” and not “look at pressure”. You can’t teach a guy to “sense bodies around him”. Either you can or you can’t
Prepare for pressure? Sure you can talk about it and look at film and talk about traits. But in the end that quarterback has to “react”. It isnt a cerebral act of logic. It is a reaction to things that are happening in real time. Reactions to things that on unique on each play…. anyone of the lineman could get beat… a blitz you don’t see …. so many different scenairo’s come into play… you can’t have a meeting on it and decide on a “logic tree” to pick throw desired response. You simple react and that is instinctive
Pure Nonsense
You can’t teach a guy to "sense bodies around him". Either you can or you can’t
I think maybe you underrate how important
Things like timing, confidence in the receivers, confidence in the line, knowing your opponents, familiarity with where the rush should be coming from on a certain play, and knowing what to do when faced with pressure through experience are all things that can be learned and taught.
When I was little, my brother and I used to backyard wrestle. He was about 6 feet tall to my 4 feet, and he’d throw me all over the place. At first, I’d wince before I’d hit the ground, and sometimes get hurt because of the flinch. After so many times though, I stopped being scared and started figuring out how to land without getting hurt, or at least with minimal damage. Nobody even taught me, I just figured out how to naturally feel/time my landings…something I had not done before.
This doesn’t really have much to do with football, but from my own experience when I was a 10 year old, I can tell you that people can learn against their initial instincts and fears. It’s not impossible. IMO it’s much more difficult to change something like a throwing motion where you have to think about it every time you throw the ball, further complicating every single play.
Players turn corners every year. Players improve every year. Unfortunately, it’s a whole lot easier to look at guys who failed and say “Well, he never figured out how to handle the rush” than recognize the guys who improved. How many Quarterbacks had this same issue at 22? I don’t know, especially because Gabbert is the youngest QB to ever start 14 games his rookie year.
so the fact that he is 5 months younger
Than Cam Newton, is the reason why he is in the pocket skittish an Newton isn’t?
Don't get it wrong
Cam is pocket skittish at times too. He’s just so dang strong that he breaks out of would be sacks.
kinda like #7 from the Steelers
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And how many times
especially when that injured, decimated team but the OT’s who’s job is to protect Cam were injured. Despite the many times that pocket has collapsed on Newton, his feet stay quiet, he stands tall despite and keeps his eyes down-field. Even with players coming at him, he steps into the pocket gets it out his hand. I’ve watched every game, including that Titans game where the o-line couldn’t stop a running nose, Cam was never skittish, and all season he’s proven he isn’t scared to take a hit. I think Gabbert is, its an issue that has been said of him in college, prior to the draft, and throughout the season.
Gabbert can be successful, but he needs a strong O-line protecting him or else he will focus on the coming rushers instead of down-field.
Cam is exceptional
I didn’t want to admit it until the end of the season, but Cam seems like the real deal. He was the first QB taken for a reason – he was ready. Blaine was not, and wasn’t supposed to start by game 3.
I’m not saying the fact that he’s younger automatically makes him more skittish, that would be silly, but it could have a small role.
Different guys have different strengths, and Blaine’s is his toolbelt and his football IQ, not NFL-ready mechanics and timing. The fact that he’s a record settingly young starting Quarterback is another log on the fire full of variables that could have exacerbated his weaknesses. The good news is, maybe with the an offseason and some new weapons, he will have a chance to focus on these weaknesses, and put some of them behind him.
Thanks for admitting that
Gabbert can be a good QB, but he needs the protection first and foremost. I think because he is far less instinctual than Newton and more deliberate he needs more time to go through his decisions
No one was "wrong" about Newton
The reason people were reluctant to draft him highly was because of his personality and character, not his physical skills.
There is nothing to indicate the skeptics were wrong about his ego and lack of intelligence. Quite the contrary. From the “Superman” routine, to ignoring his QB coach when things aren’t going his way, to throwing his teammates under the bus in an interview, to threatening to “take the ball and go home”, basically, all after winning a grand total of 6 games in the league.
The guy is a time bomb of personality disorders and it’s going to go off sooner rather than later. He doesn’t remind me of any sports personality, he reminds me of Michael Jackson. In a couple of years the Panthers won’t be able to get rid of him soon enough is my call.
Do you have a link to any of these quotes?
TBH I didn’t think he’d be able to pass from the pocket. He looked like a strong-armed Tebow to me. I’m man enough to admit it though, and he looks like a star. Steve Smith is a good example of how much better tools Cam Newton has, but not a good enough excuse that Cam is loaded with weapons. Those stats are damn impressive, and his upside is incredible. If he gets his decision making worked out, he’s a rich man’s ben roethlisberger.
"not a good enough excuse"
In other words, you can’t say his stats are so good because of his weapons. Sorry if that was confusing.
I didn't know you were on the Panther sidelines...or a psychiatrist?
I’m not going to tackle every stupid thing you just said so I’ll just focus on the dumbest ones.
1. The Superman routine- Cam does this routine because his youngest brother is a superman fan, its Cam’s way of showing that he is thinking of him. Also whats wrong with an endzone celebration every player does one even QB’s? Tom Brady spikes the ball, Tebow tebows, Drew Brees (tries to) dunk the ball through the goal post, hell there is a whole commercial based on Aaron Rodgers move (discount dbl check) what makes Cam’s move ego driven but not any of the thousands of other Pro players who have done a celebration over the decades? You also forget to mention the other part of the celebration….personally handing, not just flinging the ball into the stands he physically gives the ball to a kid in the stands. He does that after every TD, even his record breaking balls they all went to fans.
2. Please give me an example of him ignoring his QB coach? All reports state that Newton and his QB coach sit down for preparation and review countless hours of video, and is a first in last out kind of hard worker.
3. “Throwing people under the bus” did he name anyone personally? All he said was that he wants to change a losing culture that exists on the team and that he’s heard players talk about losing being acceptable. I don’t know about you, but that’s what I want from a player.
4. “The guy is a time bomb of personality disorders and it’s going to go off sooner rather than later. He doesn’t remind me of any sports personality, he reminds me of Michael Jackson. In a couple of years the Panthers won’t be able to get rid of him soon enough is my call.”
I’m not going to even bother with this dumbass statement, just reading it makes me feel like I’ve killed more than a few of my brain cells
PS
Don’t bring up wins, the Panthers averaged over 25 pts a game, and under Cam went from a bottom 2 offense last year to a top 5, they have led in 14 of 16 games. Cam Newton did his job and then some, but a defense that completely destroyed due to injuries (franchise record in players on IR) which included 5 starters, the D was reduced to practice squad rejects being signed off the streets. This D gave up 26.8 pts per game
by Yankees199 on Jan 5, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The guy has a large ego and a small brain
You can’t deny that. The announcers at the last game mentioned that he ignored Shula when he was frustrated, and Joe Person, the Panther’s beat writer said he “does that all the time”. I’m not on the sideline, but I imagine Joe is. There are so many warning signs out there. He is managed full time by that blond woman at all of his interviews and still manages to drop some head scrathing material. It will only get worse. MUCH worse.
your not even worth it
find someone else to bother with your idiotic ramblings troll
Things like timing, confidence in the receivers, confidence in the line, knowing your opponents, familiarity with where the rush should be coming from on a certain play, and knowing what to do when faced with pressure through experience are all things that can be learned and taught
i would not doubt that he could. If his issues weren’t of a instinctive nature. He can gain confidence and know opponents and become familiar and still have this same issue with situational awareness in the pocket. All of this really comes down to if we believe the light bulb will go off and “he got it”. But based on past quarterbacks with this same issue it is not very likely.
Players turn corners every year. Players improve every year.
and i hope he does
Unfortunately, it’s a whole lot easier to look at guys who failed and say "Well, he never figured out how to handle the rush" than recognize the guys who improved.
I am not comparing him to every quarterback that hasn’t worked out. I am just saying with this issue it tends to not get better. My thoughts haven’t really gone past this and gone into “now what” because i HOPE it changes. My gutt tells me it will have to be a very dramatic change.
Too me this is very simple. Some skills are instinct oriented and can’t not be taught. But they can be learned. It is really left up to him but i can honestly say i have never seen a quarterback turn this into a strenght from a weakness. Nor do i remember anyone in sports really turning something that is a instinctive weakness into a strenght.
See the thing is
it’s not as instinctive as you think. People don’t really “feel” pressure behind them and then step up. I’ve never seen holes in the back of a helmet for someone to see through the back of their head. There is not 6th sense that allows them to actually feel people. It’s more a timing/knowledge thing. When you know the offense and can read defenses you know when to escape or how to escape. You know when there is a 3 man rush you can hold on to the ball longer. When there is a blitz you know to have enough people to block the oncoming blitz, check out of a play, run, or throw to a hot.
If you think about it, a QB maneuvering in the pocket is very similar to a WR running a route. Some come ready made knowing how to run a route and how to get open. But more often than not they need time to learn how to find holes in zones and etc. Some say it’s something you feel, but I’ve seen a lot of WR developing the ability to “feel” their way through a zone, and it usually takes about 2 years. But it’s not really feel. It’s experience and knowing where people are and finding tendencies.
Offense, with an s
and TCU played a lot of shotgun but I would hardly call that a spread
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Jan 3, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Offense, with an s
and TCU played a lot of shotgun but I would hardly call that a spread
he ran the same offence as Newton.. only thing that is different was more pass oriented play selection. But it is the same read option spread. Just ask Wisconsin he did it on them all game long with that stuff
>>>Proof <<< more proof
You can pretend that this isn’t a spread all you want but it will only be pretend. Infact first few plays of the game is read option lol…..sigh
people don’t want to accept it because people want to twist it into “dalton ran a pro style offence” sigh… why?
Running the option doesn't make a spread offense..lol.. sigh
Your right, he did a similar offense to Newton but neither one was a true spread. The lined up in a lot of shot gun to give the QBs an easier time reading the defense, but were still more a pro-style team in a shot gun, sort of like the Patriots offense.
People don’t want to accept it because they know the difference between a spread and a shot gun, you obviously do not.
And spell this with me, O-F-F-E-N-S-E, Offense
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Jan 3, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
haha i always spell that with a C lol... yup i fail lol....but back to this offenSe
TCU ran the same offence. ONLY thing that is different is play call ratio from pass too run. They ran the same plays… it is the same OFFENSE
If you have the same personel group and the same formations and the same type of play calls…it is the same.
but were still more a pro-style team in a shot gun, sort of like the Patriots offense
I don’t see brady running read option. I don’t see that at all. Its not like this is a bad thing. But don’t classify Daltons offense as pro style and Newtons and read option spread when they run the same personel groups same play concepts same formations.
Gabbert is David Carr. He doesn’t stand in the the pocket and take shots to make accurate throws. His instinct is to curl up and brace for the hit. He will never be even an average NFL QB. Jags would be best served to move on. Unfortunately pride is a biatch, and they won’t accept this for a year or two.
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
Gabbert had the highest sack/pass attempt ratio of any starter in the league
One out of ten. That isn’t much of an indication that he didn’t “take shots” to make throws. Most Qbs averaged less than half that.
They will hire an offensive minded coach like Rob Chudzinski or Mike Mularkey and sign two or three veteran receivers in the next two months. Gabbert will get an entire offseason to work with the new head coach, the new offensive staff and the new receivers. People will be surprised how much he improves next year.
Many people saw this issues with his pocket awareness it isn't just coming up now
More frustrating than everyone’s misinterpretation of scouting, is the inability of so many to form their own opinion. Such was the case with Blaine Gabbert this season. As soon as Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski ripped into Gabbert on Monday Night Football against the Ravens, it became the cliche and lazy analysis of the masses. Phrases such as pocket presence, “you can’t coach courage” and reading the defense, were being thrown around ad nauseum to describe the play of Blaine Gabbert, with very few people actually understanding Gabbert’s situation, or the situation of the Jacksonville Jaguars.
I myself had long said before Gabbert was even drafted that these issues he has in the pocket could lead too the player you see now. I stated that because it is a instinctive issue it could cause him to be a bust. Now 14 games isn’t enough time to evaluate that from NFL stand point. But my point is this issue has existed pri to him getting drafted. This issue is on his scouting report yet Jags ignored it and now they want it to go away.
This is what i said pre draft about Newton and Gabbert
What i note is that Newton looks like what many claim Gabbert is….and Gabbert looks like what many say Newton is
One thing no one wants to talk about with Newton…pocket presence. He isn’t rattled …he isn’t scared…when all hell is breaking down around him he is calm. He is very decisive and makes good choices with the football. And against the blitz his completion % went UP to 70%!!!!…watch any video of him and you note that IN THE POCKET he remains calm and focus down the field…now watch Gabbert and you will see a QB that has happy feet and reads one side of the field and takes off…you will see a qb that doesn’t “feel the rush” and looks at the rush….Newton doesn’t do that his focus is down field the entire time and he feels the rush. This is the difference between being Joey Harrington or Phillp Rivers…infact this is the NUMBER ONE SKILL SET of all franchise quarterbacks. You can’t read any defence or apply any of your so called football knowledge if you don’t instinctively know how to focus down field with your eyes at all times and “feel the rush” instead of “looking at the rush”….this in my humble opinion is the single most important reason why i think Gabbert isn’t ready and why surprizingly Newton is more advance than anyone is willing to give him credit for.
I wrote this in March so I am hardly going with what Gruden said. He maybe finally seeing what i saw though
Many players do improve with time
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yea but instinctive skills don't change
Many players do improve with time
i agree
But…. This too some degree is the same issue with David Carr… Joey Harrington… Alex Smith (too many too name)
They are smart and accurate and know the offence and have good arms. But never could adjust to the pressure of a NFL pocket and how much pressure and little time they have on this level. You don’t see them standing in the pocket calmly as if no one is around them at all. This is the KEY trait in all the really good quarterbacks in the NFL right now. Even with bodies around them and pressure they calmly step up and slide and get on balance and throw. With these guys listed above you see panic in their body langage and lack of pocket awareness and even cringing to invisiblie defenders. AND TOO THIS DAY that has NEVER changed. It is instinctive…. a human reaction….. can a instinct be coached? This is where i am at on this and it leads me to believe that he will be very limited at best. Like Alex Smith is now
Alex Smith can’t run a offence that has a high pass ratio because it will expose his weakness vs pressure. He panics and doesn’t have a good pocket sense. He can make all the throws and has a really good run game. The defence keeps them in games so he isn’t playing from behind and not playing in shootouts. Yet he leads the NFL in getting sacked…… it never changes
his timidness in the pocket improved quite a bit towards the end of the season...
so it does change at some level. The game is moving fast for him right now, likely due to his super young age and lack of experience and talent around him. I’d expect him to develop a better clock with more experience and better players and we’ll see if he can eliminate the timidness enough to be a top qb.
@troycarson
his timidness in the pocket improved quite a bit towards the end of the season…
I still saw his production limited because of his pocket skills. And even that first TD last week he had very good protection. It really is just a matter of keeping people out of his face and he can be “ok”.
I think of it like Alex Smith. They realized that a high run oriented offence with play action would limit him from pressure. But he still has issues with it. He leads the NFL in getting sacked. On a team that isn’t playing from behind.. that isn’t throwing it alot…that runs the ball as a priority.. playing with leads… with the leagues best defence. 49ers Staff (coach of the year imho) Just have him eat the sacks and dink and dunk with some creative plays mixed in to creat some scores. While limiting his exposer to pressure… sounds like what needs to happen with Blaine.
This
The Jaguars have a problem. The line sucks the receivers suck and Gabbert sucks. The problem isn’t really the players but rather the Jacksonville front office is horrible at evaluating and developing offensive talent. The players they are struggling with are just evidence of this fault.
Gabbert was overhyped to fill in a weak year for quarterbacks. He had a horrible junior year where he wasn’t even one of the top 5 quarterbacks in the Big 12 and his rocket up the draft boards happened after all the games were played. That was a huge red flag for several front offices that had a very strong need for a quarterback — and they passed. Jacksonville did not, and now they have to accept the consequences.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
sigh
The Jaguars have a problem. The line sucks the receivers suck and Gabbert sucks. The problem isn’t really the players but rather the Jacksonville front office is horrible at evaluating and developing offensive talent. The players they are struggling with are just evidence of this fault.
it is harder for me to swallow this pill as a fan of the Jags. But it is pretty freaking dead on.
Gabbert was overhyped to fill in a weak year for quarterbacks. He had a horrible junior year where he wasn’t even one of the top 5 quarterbacks in the Big 12 and his rocket up the draft boards happened after all the games were played. That was a huge red flag for several front offices that had a very strong need for a quarterback — and they passed. Jacksonville did not, and now they have to accept the consequences.
This is what i have said 9 months ago about this quarterback. The quarterbacks before Gabbert at Mizz where more productive and the quarterback back after him now is more productive.
Too me this smells like fans hoping he is good instead of any real evidence that he will be good. Pre draft i said he wasn’t a first round pick. And i still say it but people just bash me and say the “but he has potiental” and “he makes pro reads” and everything you can think of. Now that the Nightmare of acturally drafting him is reality and he is displaying why IT SUCKS. It is like i am in the twillight zone and nobody can see this train wreck…sigh.
I hope he does good so i root for him. But what am i suppose to think from my perspective?
From my perspective
Everybody wants to wait and see because they want to believe in the guys wearing their teams uniforms. The uniforms are more important than who is actually in them but once one name is on the back of the jersey they become “the guy” and until irrefutable undeniable evidence is presented over a huge sample size most will defend him to the death.
But there are positions in this game where you do not have the time to wait and see. I don’t think you should can the guy immediately, but don’t do what we did and spend 6 years waiting on Alex Smith to get to the point where he’s not losing games for you. Every draft, come out with a quarterback until you have a good starter. Every training camp, real open competition.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
by Ougadas on Jan 3, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is all i have been saying here...keep options open especially under this new CBA
To me it is smart to give him more time. But it is also smart to start to address plan B.
Everybody wants to wait and see because they want to believe in the guys wearing their teams uniforms. The uniforms are more important than who is actually in them but once one name is on the back of the jersey they become "the guy" and until irrefutable undeniable evidence is presented over a huge sample size most will defend him to the death
I read lots of comments lined with hope. And that is what is special about sports is you can have great stories. And i hope Gabbert has his own special story in Jacksonville. Just not at the expense of years and years of building around him only to find out he is what he is. Just addressing a plan B isn’t giving up on him. It is putting the team first
But there are positions in this game where you do not have the time to wait and see. I don’t think you should can the guy immediately, but don’t do what we did and spend 6 years waiting on Alex Smith to get to the point where he’s not losing games for you. Every draft, come out with a quarterback until you have a good starter. Every training camp, real open competition
Yea i compare Alex Smith to him. Seems to be pretty much the same player. If they use a similiar offensive philosophy then maybe he can play better (kinda seems like that is what is happening). He is just a rookie so lets see what happens after the 2nd year because that is the moment when all quarterbacks have their biggest jump in improvement.
First
Gabbert is taller, has a much bigger arm, and he makes quicker decisions than Alex Smith. And having said all that, Alex Smith is a winning QB.
this year
I believe his won/loss as a starter was more than 10 games under 500 coming into this season
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I said similar things about
Gabbert before and after we drafted him. I knew he didn’t know how to work a pocket yet. It’s part of why I wanted him to sit a year. Then he could learn the offense and then he could allocate more resources to learning other things, like opposing defenses and how to work a pocket.
In college I didn’t like the fact that Gabbbert didn’t like to run over people t get an extra yard. He protected himself at times. But I didn’t see him as scared then, nor do I now. He was being smart, and he was protecting himself like coaches usually want from a franchise QB. Remember the scandal made out of Mark Sanchez’s inability to slide?
In the end though, I knew he could think on his feet. He knew to throw the ball away at times. He could make quick decisions. He had an incredibly quick release. He can do everything you need to do to avoid getting sacked.
However in college he never worked a pocket. Their offense was all about getting the ball out fast, and if the first read wasn’t there he would run out of the pocket. And the OL didn’t create a pocket for him to even to step into. It just wasn’t what they practiced. On OL’s tackles push Ends past QB’s, but the guards set the depth of the pocket. At Mizzou their depth was basically zero.
I wonder if Jags fans are so accustomed to their qb taking kill shots and/or scrambling
as we’ve seen since Brunell was under center that any avoidance of contact is seen as cowardice. Peyton Manning and Brady don’t take unnecessary shots.
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Gabbert had an average season for a rookie starter
Stop trying to make it seem like his year was an all time disaster or something. Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith had passer ratings of 40 and 39 respectively in their rookie season. Eli Manning wasn’t much better.
The other thing is that half the league’s starters at QB are on IR at the moment. Is it smart to stand in there and “take the shots” all the time? If you’re 21 years old on a team where everyone is jumping for a life raft, as the Jags were this season, you want to survive to play another day with a decent chance of succeeding. I completely understand Gabbert’s style
Finally, Jon Gruden is a complete idiot. I you’re reduced to using his analysis for support, you’ve long lost the argument.
Stop trying to make it seem like his year was an all time disaster or something. Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith had passer ratings of 40 and 39 respectively in their rookie season. Eli Manning wasn’t much better
Aaron Rodgers didn’t start! Alex Smith seven years later is still trying to shake off a bust lable (or atleast look like a first round pick)
Exactly
Rodgers didn’t start when he was Gabbert’s age. Or the next year, or the one after that. But you’re ready to write Gabbert off just after he turned 22, coming off an average rookie starter season. The top five passer rating guys in the league, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Romo, and Schaub, were on average, 25 YEARS OLD, when they became NFL starters. You think they would have stepped in when they were 21 and lit things up?
Give Newton some credit it wasn't just him blindly throwing the ball up to Steve Smith
, while Cam Newton was the first overall pick, and was working with Steve Smith and coordinator Rob Chudzinski.) Coming out of a spread style offense after just three college seasons
Cam Newton may have had 3 years but he spent it at 3 different schools. And had to learn 3 different offenses and personel. So you would imagine that would have been a tougher road right?
Can anyone objectively say that Steve Smith made Cam Newton good this year? I feel that is totally unfair. Steve Smith has not had a 1000 yard season since the 09 season. And last year he had 554 yards. Many are thinking he is in decline. Add Newton and he is a top 3 reciever again.
The truth is Steve Smith is really good. But he needed Newton in order to meet this level of play this year. Without Steve Smith Newton still passes for 3k plus yards because of his ability to stand in the pocket and hit people…
Quarterbacks make recievers better. Recievers make quarterbacks dynamic. You can have a allstar cast of recievers and a bad quarterback and you won’t move the football. But if you have a good quarterback and below average to bad recievers you still have a chance.
You
let see, Cam Newton to Steve Smith versus Claussen to Smith
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Panthers spent to the cap this year
Mostly on offense to support Newton. Smith, Jeremy Schockey, Greg Olson, Legedu Nanee. The offense was designed for Newton but Chudzinski from the get go. Jags on the other hand were 30 million below the cap, and only that close because of money they spent on defensive free agents, like Posluszny, Sessions, Landry, Roth, etc. Then Gabbert had to take over an offense designed for Garrard, supported by other team’s waiver wire scrap like Jason Hill, etc. On the run, three games into the season. Huge difference.
They hardly "spent big bucks" on those guys. Other than Olson those guys are temperary fill in players
Panthers spent to the cap this year
Mostly on offense to support Newton. Smith, Jeremy Schockey, Greg Olson, Legedu Nanee
really? Shockey was a good pick up (37catches for 455 yards 2 TD)but teams weren’t falling all over themselfs to sign him. Greg Olson has been decent (45 catches for 540 yards and 5 TD) Both decent but not game changing.
Legedu Nanee was a waiver pick up (not like you present it like he was some big free agent deal) And for most of the season he was the starter by default because of Injury or youth or because they had nobody else.
The offense was designed for Newton but Chudzinski from the get go.
What does this suppose to mean? Aren’t you suppose to design your offence too the skill sets of your players (confused).
Do you say this to suggest that Newton could not run a “prototype” “pro style” “sterotypical” “NFL offence” ? Truth is Newtons has displayed that he can run Chudzinski’s offence plus the added things he can do with Newton. That defines versital when you can run any style of offence. And you have to play a quarterback that can make every throw and yet you still have to defend the wild cat oriented plays for 60 minutes. This is why Newton is unique. Newton without running at all shows the promise to be a pro bowl level quarterback. (oh wait he almost did make the probowl and likely will be in the probowl because either Rodgers or Brees will be in the dance… so he will be in the probowl)
Then Gabbert had to take over an offense designed for Garrard, supported by other team’s waiver wire scrap like Jason Hill
Offence designed for Garrard? What did Garrad have a DNA stamp on it or something? What did Garrad run the Option? This is a excuse if i ever heard one. They both are expected to excute the same plays. And if you want to try to convince me that Garrad wasn’t running a prototypical pro style offence then ..then…then…sigh. This is a big time excuse.
Jason Hill and the other Jags recievers aren’t fighting for anybodies probowl ballots thats for sure. But like i said my concern is what is happening from the time the ball is snapped till the time you get ready to throw. And even with poor recievers quarterbacks get drafted high because they can throw people open. Gabbert CAN THROW PEOPLE open. HE HAS that type of skill. POOR reciever play IS HURTING him. I totally see this. But some of it is him and i don’t expect a rookie to be consistant. It is the body langage..it is the panic under pressure..it is the cringing from invisible defenders… it is the same issues i am talking about since before he was drafted. Newton doesn’t do it..Dalton doesn’t do it.. and it doesn’t matter what offence you run you can’t attack down field doing that.
A quarterback has to be accountable for throwing recievers open at least sometimes
At times did Blaine Gabbert show terrible pocket awareness? Yes. Did he even look timid, or everyone’s favorite “scared,” at times? Sure. But the fact of the matter is that, far too often, nobody was open for him to throw to.
The receivers couldn’t get separation. Period.So, yeah, a rookie quarterback thrown into the fire far earlier than expected, with a short offseason and coming from a spread offense, looked a bit rattled in the pocket when nobody was open and the defense was closing in. That seems understandable to me.
All to often this is fixed by putting in a different quarterback
Getting open is subjective. What is open to one quarterback may not be open to another. You can have guys with out speration but still have position on their defender. There are so many moving parts in why a reciever is open or not open. But one thing is for sure and you can’t even really debate this. No recieving core is 100% always covered on all downs all game long. Maybe too that quarterback that is in the game they aren’t open. But the really good quarterbacks throw recievers open. For fans to assess recievers and judge if they are open or not is just about impossible…it is subjective based on who is quarterbacking
Am i saying change quarterbacks? nope. I am saying that some quarterbacks throw recievers open even if they have defenders on them at one point if the ball is on time on their break there IS NO DEFENDING THAT. This is why pass rush is so important because it is physically impossible to cover everyone even most of the time. Defense are designed to rattle a quarterback so they can’t see this. If your quarterback is having a hard time maintaining composure then they are helping this defensive process to prevent him from throwing recievers open…. THAT is the issue. Not recievers NOT running wide open like on a video game.
shank, our receivers suck.
Maybe our guys are used to running to a spot, stopping and then the ball gets there instead of it getting to them in stride.
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shank, our receivers suck.
Maybe our guys are used to running to a spot, stopping and then the ball gets there instead of it getting to them in stride
I don’t deny that they aren’t that great. But this isn’t a video game. In real life recievers can’t be covered for every down on every play all play all game long. Quarterbacks have to throw them open.
There have been tons of quarterbacks with no name recievers that could move the ball… Tom Brady they year they beat the Rams in the Super Bowl do you know who their Number1 and Number 2 recievers are? … They didn’t have a allstar cast. It isn’t just the recievers the quarterback has to account for throwing guys open.
What i don’t see is recievers that are given the chance. Ball placement that gives a reciever a chance to make a play. It is easy to say they aren’t open if they don’t even get the ball thrown their way. That just isn’t how it works.
what I see is you have ridiculously high and more often than not, unsustainable standards for rookie quarterbacks
Aikman, Elway, Bradshaw and about 98% of all rookie quarterbacks would never stand a chance with a guy like you, who I would venture to say has never held an NFL coaching job, doing the evaluating.
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i am not talking about his entire skill set...only one trait.
what I see is you have ridiculously high and more often than not, unsustainable standards for rookie quarterbacks
Aikman, Elway, Bradshaw and about 98% of all rookie quarterbacks would never stand a chance with a guy like you, who I would venture to say has never held an NFL coaching job, doing the evaluating
It isn’t that my standards are too high. I am simply looking at one aspect of a quarterbacks game that routinely trumps their other skills. So in fairness i have to respond too this perspective you have laid out
Troy Aikman did not display these issues in the pocket. Nor did Troy Aikman have these issues in the pocket on his scouting report coming into the NFL.Troy had a 400 yard passing game as a rookie. Troy had a 4 TD passing game as a rookie. He displayed flashes that lead you to believe he had the stuff.
John Elway another first player picked in the draft. Only started 11 games and struggled big time. Yet Elway had issues with Accuracy and reading coverage. There was never a issue with looking scared in the pocket
Terry Bradshaw is harder to talk about because of a different era and did not watch him. But stat wise in 14 seasons 7 of them he had less than 2000 yards. In 2 seasons he had more than 3000 yards. And he made the pro bowl one year with less than 2000 yards passing. So it is a different era and so much harder to evaluate on top of not seeing him…..unfair to put him as a comparaison
Too list compare Gabbert to these guys i think is unfair to Gabbert. The issue is fans are all the way at one extreme when they look at a quarterback. It is hard to take off the fan hate and remain objective. I am in the middle at neither end of any extreme. I am not even saying what he is or isn’t as a quarterback.
What i have talked about is what this post is about and that is his pocket awareness/skills. And i didn’t like what i saw long before he played in the NFL.. and these weakness are playing out pretty much too the letter. I question weather they can be changed. Unlike the above quarterbacks you refered too (i can’t comment on bradshaw i have no clue) Two of them did not have these same issues.
Aikman was scared witless
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Aikman was scared witless
yet showed signs of greatness. Which is the entire point of me meantioning him. He atleast displayed tell tell signs
that is such a revisionist history comment and you know it.
How the hell can you show greatness in a 1-15 season where there was a legitimate competition for the starting position with Steve freaking Walsh?
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This is only testimony to Aikmans responds as a rookie.
that is such a revisionist history comment and you know it.
How the hell can you show greatness in a 1-15 season where there was a legitimate competition for the starting position with Steve freaking Walsh?
This situation may not be the same. The point is Aikman showed promise of becoming great. He had big games. It really isn’t his fault he played on a poor team that year. Irvin was on IR.. Emmitt was still at Florida….it was the year before the big “Herchel Walker Trade” that landed them a big jump in talent. But at that moment Aikman had less to work with than Gabbert and a poor defense to boot. YET he still displayed “flashes”, he still displayed “wow plays”. He gave you signs that he had the stuff. A 4 TD game and a 400 yard game with nobody to throw too as a rookie is considered “signs”. Can you identify any games where Gabbert took over he put on a show? Something more than one drive?
The only point in bringing them up was in responds to others referencing him saying. “Well Aikman had a down year and look at what he did” And he did have a text book rookie year. But he also had signature moments that lead you to believe he could be much much more. Gabbert doesn’t even have a signature moment from College except if you want to count a interception at the end of a Bowl game to lose it…. just saying
So obviously you've determined he's as good as he's going to get.
BTW, no need to copy and paste my reply.
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There's a big difference between no-name receivers and BAD receivers
The Jaguars’ receivers are the latter. I live in California and can’t go to live games, but from all accounts from people actually at the games, the receivers were RARELY open, and that’s definitely something you can see from a stadium vantage point.
You’re also comparing a Super Bowl Tom Brady’s ability to throw receivers open to 22-year-old rookie Blaine Gabbert’s ability to throw receivers open. That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 3, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
This Sunday it was pretty much all of the same
There were a few plays, the one to West for the TD and pass to Osgood that were good. Something just ain’t right with Mike Thomas. Not sure if he got comfortable once he got his payday or what, but the guy just refuses to finish off routes. Everything to the receivers is outside the numbers.
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You’re also comparing a Super Bowl Tom Brady’s ability to throw receivers open to 22-year-old rookie Blaine Gabbert’s ability to throw receivers open. That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense
Your right that is unfair. It was just a extreme example really. (sorry) But the point is even if you do have “mehh” recievers you still have hope if your quarterback play is decent.
It is my opinion that quarterbacks make recievers. But you need big time recievers to be dynamic.
Is there something wrong with these recievers? I think so. But there is a balance there.
What i am looking at isn’t numbers at all. It is the process of completing a pass. It is the process from the moment the ball is snapped till the pass leaves his hands. That is where i have issue. Because the kid is smart… he can throw… he has skills… just this one issue. Sadly it is just a common theme with other quarterbacks that never got better.
Age is a huge deal.
Gabbert is one of the youngest qbs to ever start in the NFL. Had no offseason with the team, lack of weapons, along with questionable coaching around him. The fact that he handled everything top notch and showed nice improvement as the season went along and displayed decent decision making and showed that that probably won’t be an issue going forward is significant. I am in no way confident that he will develop into a top tier qb, but he certainly showed signs that he is worthy of a shot going forward.
@troycarson
I could see the Jags taking someone in the middle rounds
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I hate to say this
but, I could see them letting McCown go and signing a vet on the affordable (a Pennington or Brunell type) to be a reasonable backup in case of injury and to sort of decode the playbook.
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what do you think they'll do, stay with what they have with or without LeFevour?
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He looked bad this year.
He clearly was not ready. As a Jag fan, I’m not sure he’s a “serviceable” starting QB. Had the Jags had a “serviceable” QB this year, we would have contended for the division.
I say either draft another QB or sign a “serviceable” vet in case we have a repeat of this year.
Gabbert AKA " Sunshine "
Gabbert doesnt really convince me ….i wudnt mind picking Luck and trading Gabbert for a pick or a player
L F J
by Daddycrapper on Jan 3, 2012 3:42 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Yeah, maybe we could get Peyton from the Colts as well, just in case
Veteran backup insurance for Luck. Can’t be too safe.
Nice article
Its good to an intelligent posts concerning the Jags’ QB situation, even though a certain poster is trying to sprinkle in the usual ignorance.
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Jan 3, 2012 4:21 PM EST reply actions
It all depends on the alternatives. You could have made many of the same arguments about why Jimmy Claussen deserved another shot in Carolina. But they had Cam Newton on the board.
For the Jags, that’s what it should come down to.
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I voted no because I don't think he'll end up being successful
it is a shame too because I do believe he could succeed in a better situation. He needs a consistent/reliable o-line and the receiving situation in Jax is pretty depressing. I think a few good drafts could turn him into something nice but with new ownership and a restart in the front office, it is not entirely absurd to think that they could ditch Gabbert to take someone else they like
they just re-signed their GM who drafted Gabbert...
so he is going to get his shot. And expect the Jags to make some big splashes this offseason to put weapons around him.
@troycarson
that's a good start but if you plan on getting a big name head coach
he might stipulate that he gets total control over his first draft as often happens.
so far they have contacted 5 OCs to interview who aren't big names...
and Smith was extended when JDR was fired and they changed ownership, so clearly they want him as GM going forward.
@troycarson
If they have a problem with Gabbert
they wont be coach. It’s pretty plain and simple. They don’t want a coach with an ego.
it is a shame too because I do believe he could succeed in a better situation
I agree
I think Smith is clueless as a GM. I wish he was gone ..sigh
hardly clueless...
as he built a roster that is pretty good aside from the passing game, which I suspect will be repaired this offseason. It all comes down to Gabbert.
@troycarson
I have my issues with the GM
but he is far from clueless. Any true jaguar fan would realize something like that.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
i am just frustrated
because i felt like he was going to make this move. But yea he has been ok. Just seemed desperate to pick Gabbert and trading up as well..sigh. Just this situation frustrates me because i saw this coming a mile away just not to the Jags.
the minute Garrard's back flared up, the season was a wash
The team wanted Gabbert to win the job outright. He split snaps. He could not win it. Perfect world, I believe the team would have treated Gabbert similar to how Tennessee treated Locker.
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Spot on sir
You have a sense of reason that many football fans just do not have. Am I saying he is going to be the long-term answer for my beloved Jaguars?! Absolutely not. But in no way is this past season a good gauge of his potential in the NFL. Get him a healthy offensive line and some wide receivers who can get seperation and catch, and then let’s see what he can do.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Reason Gabbert was rated so highly
Were -
1) Arm strength and quick release, probably the two key physical ingredients in a successful QB.
2) Intelligence, maturity, leadership qualities. The most important “intangibles” in a successful QB.
He was, and is, top of the class in all those departments. You saw that in the last game of as miserable a season as could ever be inflicted on a rookie quarterback. The arm, the release, the poise, the confidence, are all there intact. He’ll still be the youngest quarterback in the league next season and he has 14 starts and 400 passes under his belt. Sure, he will have to learn a new offensive system again, but the guy rang up a 42 on his Wonderlic. Twice the score of Newton and Locker. so he should be able to learn two systems in the same time period without too much problem.
This is bullshit................
…………jk spot on. Rec’d
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Gabbet is terrible
There’s a reason that 10 teams passed on him, including 7 QB needy teams.
It’s because Gabbert sucks. Harbaugh saw it, the Panthers saw it, Jay Gruden saw it, the Cardinals saw it, the Titans saw it, and the Redskins saw it.
The Jags are going to set their franchise back if they stick with him. No coach is going to want to come in and be forced to work with him.
Exactly...
all the teams that passed on Marino clearly knew what they were doing as well… he was terrible!
@troycarson
Marino fell because of character concerns iirc
More importantly though, why would guys like Chud, Jay Gruden, and Harbaugh pass on the kid when they needed to draft a QB?
The Jags are interviewing Chud for goodness sake, and they took a QB he didn’t want.
There’s a reason so many guys passed on Gabbert.
He was unproductive in college, the pocket awareness issues were identifiable even then, and he crumbled in big games like the one against Iowa last year.
by Gitaroo_Dude on Jan 3, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Chud didn't want him? Source please. Last I saw he was one of the finalists for the first pick.
And sorry if I don’t buy the argument that 9 teams passed on him so he sucks. Yes he had his flaws coming out, pocket awareness being one (your other two noted flaws are very debatable), but he was also super young, intelligent, all the physical tools, and great off the field.
@troycarson
Chud and Carolina have said they did intense evaluations on Gabbert and Newton
They went with Cam.
I think what people are ignoring/forgetting is that the Cam pick was very unpopular and controversial.
They could have gone with Gabbert and received the approval of the talking heads and draftniks.
Cam has worked out pretty well for them though.
I have no doubt they’d have gone with Gabbert if they thought he would turn out to be the better QB.
by Gitaroo_Dude on Jan 4, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
That's like
signing Brady over Peyton. Picking one over the other doesn’t mean you wouldn’t want both.
The number one pick was down to Cam and Gabbert
I don’t get how you think nobody was interested if he was potentially the number one pick? Also, Panthers needed someone to be able to play NOW. When we drafted Gabbert, I don’t think we were concerned about finding someone who could start right away. We got the raw guy that appeared to have the highest ceiling. The guy that would benefit from having Garrard in front of him for year.
Again, aren’t people always wining that we take too many safe picks and don’t go for enough raw physical guys? We got him everybody, now give him the time to develop. #topreventhippocracy
I'm sure Chudzinski had the final say in Carolina
If the Panthers took Newton then it’s absolutely 100% positive that the OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR didn’t want Gabbert.
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Ron Rivera is a DEFENSIVE specialist
Are you really going to try and argue that Chud didn’t have a big voice in the discussion about who they were going to draft as their franchise QB?
I’m not saying Chud was the final or even most decisive voice among Carolina’s braintrust.
But to argue the team’s offensive specialist had no say at all or a minimal one is delusional.
by Gitaroo_Dude on Jan 3, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
Well unless Iconic Mannnn!
….decides he really wants to be a fireman or a cowboy when he grows up instead of Superman and Batman. I guess the Panthers will be O.K. That and keeping the full time Nurse Ratched P.R. minder on him at all times to make sure the marbles he’s manipulating in his mouth before he talks don’t come out in the wrong order. If he was a race horse and not a football player, he’d probably be considered noble, but as it is he will become an object of ridicule.
So let's assume he did have a say
Then who’s to say he didn’t 100% want Gabbert. If he wanted Gabbert but the rest of the staff decided to go with Cam, do you think we’d know about it?
That’s like saying because a child was dressed in green, both of the child’s parents hated the color blue.
People who have probably have a more important voice than Chudzinski in Carolina on draft day
Don Gregory
Brandon Beane
Marty Hurney
Jerry Richardson
and yes, Ron Rivera
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Your logic is amazing
Every quarterback not taken 1st overall must suck because there’s a reason teams passed on them. I guess there’s no point taking a QB after the 1st round.
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I dont claim to be analyst
But my problems with him have nothing to do with what analyst say. I did my own homework on him before the 2011 draft (being a Titans fan, and there being a good chance of us drafting him.) First is his lack of production in a system that is designed to put up big numbers, Chase Daniels put 4100 yard and 33 td compared to Blaine’s 3200 yards and 16 tds. Second is he seemed unwilling to work the ball down field, every throw seemed to be short to intermediate. This was not more evident in the game (can’t remember which one it was) that his long throw besides a shuttle pass to MJD was to an offensive linemen. One thing I’ve noticed since he’s come into the league (he never throw these routes in college due to the spread system), is that on drop back timing routes is he does not transfer his weight forward and always throwing off his back foot. This does not allow him to get everything into his throws.
re: his college stats...
he also wasn’t working with the same talent around him as Daniels. Notice the drop off in stats from Gabbert’s 2nd to 3rd year, in which he lost Alexander.
As for the footwork thing, yes, that has been a big issue this year, and once again was something that improved as the year went on. Hard to truly judge him without him getting an entire offseason to be coached up and some adequate weapons around him, which will happen this offseason.
@troycarson
gabbert didn't have anywhere near the talent daniel had to throw to.
chase had a freaking dream cast to throw to. blaine had danario alexander and thats it.
can't we just pave over kansas?
All of those problems I feel can be fixed
But my biggest question is does he want to put in the time to fix them. After the draft he seemed to be the only quarterback drafted in the first round that didn’t consider the one or two days the lockout was lifted to allow him to meet the couches and grab a playbook to be an early Christmas present. If he not excited about getting to learn his new offence since “there not sure if there is even going to be a season (or something along those lines)”. What makes you believe he is willing to put in the work if there no OTA till June or even no regular season game till September. Either way I think the Titans made the right decision with Locker.
+1
Not a single person has ever said anything but the fact that Gabbert is an extremely hard worker. And he most certainly did pick up his playbook and study it. He also knew quit a bit of it early on. And he also worked with his teammates in player organized activities.
A year ago at this time (exactly)
No one knew who Blaine Gabbert was, outside of Missouri. The people who knew him did not expect him to declare for the draft. Outside of Todd McShay who was fishing for a storyline, the people who did know him, and knew he declared for the draft did not expect him to be a top 10 or even a first round pick.
Gabbert bluffed his way into the top ten with smarts, charm, and looks. Good for him, that does not mean he won’t justify the selection. Makes it more likely that he will, I would say. At this point, the game is about 90% mental, and 90% mental strength for Blaine is around 250% for the rest of them.
He is the youngest player in the history of the NFL to start his 13th and 14th games. Coming off a college season where he threw 16 Td passes. You have to hand it to the guy.
disagree...
prior to the year I was looking up qbs to watch for the Jags to draft after the year, and many mentioned Gabbert highly and compared him to Roethlisberger.
Pretty much every player in his situation is not going to have a lot of buzz draft wise going into the year (1 year starter/not at major program/not some superstar recruit).
@troycarson
Roethlisberger had huge numbers the year he came out
Thye previous two college seasons as well. It’s hard to find anyone who was drafted as highly as Gabbert with similar numbers in his final college season. Maybe Jay Cutler, but he was playing for Vanderbilt when they could hardly win a game.
but nobody thought blaine coming out.
he should have stayed his sr. year
can't we just pave over kansas?
that was my point
….a year ago at this time no one thought Gabbert would/should declare for the draft. So he would just be finishing up his college career now and going into the mix with the other QBs available. He is younger than all of them, I believe, except maybe Griffin if he declares. Just a couple months older than Griffin. But Blaine wouldn’t be further ahead. Just another year in that junky offense at Mizzou, instead of $7 million he banked this year and a full year of NFL experience. The bluff paid off.
Great analysis
It was insanely stupid for the Jags to cut Garrard and throw Gabbert right in the fire with their craptastic offense. Gabbert has all the tools in the world, but he was raw and definitely would have benefited from sitting for a year or two to learn.
But since he didn’t get that opportunity, the Jags absolutely need to hire a bright offensive mind that has experience tutoring young QBs as their new head coach. They also must get some weapons for Gabbert to utilize in the passing game; the Jags clearly have the worst receiving corps in the league.
It is WAAAAAAAY too soon to give Gabbert an absolute grade. He needs a coaching mentor and more talent on offense before we can truly judge him.
Garrard was terrible in TC and preseason...
and required back sugery to miss the season without playing a snap. Cutting him was most definitely the right move. The issue was that McCown had a meltdown against the Jets.
@troycarson
Blaine Gabbert
The Jags cut David Garrard when they knew his injury would keep him out for all or most of the season. They were totally wrong about having a backup, so they were forced to start Gabbert. He had 2 years starting at Missouri, missed his last HS season with an injury and was 21 when season started. He needs off/pre season coaching, some receivers who can run routes and catch, plus an OL and a team that is not decimated by injuries – Jags had over 30 players on the IR during the 2011 season. Gabbert has a strong arm, quick release and I think he’s accurate. His “lack” of pocket presence may come from no open receivers, as well as inexperience with the system and players around him. Playing for the Jags this year as a rookie would probably make almost anyone lose confidence. And yes, the national sports media knows and cares nothing about Jax – except for MJD – the Jaguar players remain unknown and unappreciated outside of the immediate area. Even in J-Ville there are a large number of fans who have migrated from the Northeast and Midwest and remain loyal to their original teams, not the Jags. I think the new ownership would be wise to fill their obvious gaps (maybe get Justin Blackmon) and build AROUND Gabbert, not replace him!
maduceone
So we give up after 1 year?
Alex Smith has been playing how many years, 8? And he JUST became a “productive” starting Quarterback. With the right coaching Gabbert has all the tools to be a great QB.
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