Ravens college scouting director high on 2012 NFL Draft QB class
by Dan Kadar on Feb 11, 2012 10:15 AM EST
in 2012 NFL Draft
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PrintBetween now and April, opinions will vary and change, but for now at least one NFL talent evaluator is high on this year's quarterback class.
Baltimore Ravens college scouting director Joe Hortiz likes this year's quarterback group more than last year's. That's saying something, considering five of the first 36 picks (Cam Newton, Jake Locker Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick) were quarterbacks.
"Last year was looked at as a good year, and I think this year’s quarterback group is a better overall group of quarterbacks," Hortiz told BaltimoreRavens.com. "It may not go off the same way as it did last year, but that doesn’t mean they’re not better than the guys that were drafted in the first round and/or high second round."
Although it's impossible to totally trust what an NFL talent evaluator says this time of year, Hortiz's quarterback assessment shouldn't be dismissed. While Ravens starter Joe Flacco is by no means a top level quarterback, it's doubtful the Ravens will take a quarterback early. So it's unlikely some team would read Hortiz's comments and want to overdraft a quarterback.
Hortiz is also high on the defensive line and wide receiver class. Read more about that here.
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gonna have to disagree with him on that one
but then again he thinks joe flacco is a good QB so his definition of good and the rest of the worlds definition could be a little off
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 11, 2012 11:02 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
More Flacco hatin'. Why?
The guy got his team to the AFC title game and played well there. You might fairly say he’s no Aaron Rodgers, but it’s ridiculous to say he’s not a good QB.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
well mark sanchez, and trent dilfer "got" their teams there too
doubt anybody classifies them as good
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 11, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So what do you advise the Ravens to do, trade him for draft picks?
I guarantee you there would be 20 NFL teams bidding.
You need to define what you mean by “good”. If you’re going to say “equal to Drew Brees or Tom Brady,” most NFL teams are going to search forever for a “good” QB.
Flacco is in the 2nd tier of QBs with Ryan, Schaub, Rivers, Stafford, Bradford, Fitzpatrick, etc. All good-but-not-great QBs. He’s not the best of that lot nor the worst; he’s just one of the “good” group.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
no hes not
schaub, rivers, stafford are all much better than him. hes a third tier Qb on the level of mark sanchez, matt cassel that would be viewed as a bad qb on a lesser team. the only thing keeping flacco afloat in the nfl are his wins and those are due solely to the team around him. Hes not the worst but he is overrated even how he is viewed today
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 11, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
gonna have to agree with Jaggaholic on that one
Flacco is not in the same class as Rivers, Ryan, Schaub or Stafford.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
How many playoff wins does Schaub Ryan and Stafford have? None. How many 200 yard passing games in the playoffs does Ryan have? None.
Flacco won 4 road playoff games in his first 3 seasons, and was a dropped pass away from going to the Superbowl after having a hell of a game against NE.
It is quite pathetic that people still think this guy is comparable to Mark Sanchez. If this were the case, don’t you think we would be hearing mass amounts of talk regarding replacing Flacco? Do you not find it strange that the only “analysts” out there to bash Flacco are dumbass Sapp and Jamie Dukes?
Flacco is a top10-12 QB in this league and there is no argument you can make against that.
"Picture Me Rollin"
That's a solid arguement
And since hypotheticals really dont count, i.e. if Schaub, Ryan, Stafford had baltimore’s defense, etc., all I can really say is that I would take Stafford and Ryan over Flacco any day of the week. Schaub has been injury prone, so that is debatable.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
And what has Ryan done that is so special? Considering he has far better weapons than Joe does, he has nothing to really show for it, plays in a dome, and actually had a home playoff game prior to this season.
The guy put up ZERO points in the playoffs this year while Flacco was slinging it all over the place. Seems like Ryan surely is elite.
But let me guess, Ryan just “passes the eye test” right?
"Picture Me Rollin"
I’m not really sure what Flacco has done that is so special. Baltimore is a much better franchise than atlanta, you should pride yourself in that. Ryan was drafted to a bad atlanta team and has elevated the play of that team each season. You do realize that the falcons lost to the eventual super bowl champion the last 2 seasons, right?
Flacco on the other hand has benefited from having arguably the best defense in the NFL for his entire career. He has a very strong running game and a great offensive line. He may not have the WR weapons that Ryan has, but overall the ravens have a better roster than the falcons.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Ryan was drafted to a bad atlanta team
Flacco came to a team that was 5-11 the previous season.
You do realize that the falcons lost to the eventual super bowl champion the last 2 seasons, right?
You do realize that Flacco has lost to the eventual AFC Champion 4 straight years and 1 Superbowl champion? He has lost to Ben twice, Brady and Manning. Tough company I would say.
but overall the ravens have a better roster than the falcons.
Why do people make this out to be a fault of his. He has carried this team many, many times.
The stats prove that he has not only been one of the more successful QB’s in the last 4 years, but one of the most successful QB’s to ever play in their first 4 seasons. I will dig them up for you if you’d like.
"Picture Me Rollin"
I’m not really sure what Flacco has done that is so special.
- First rookie quarterback to start all sixteen games and make the playoffs
- First rookie quarterback to win two playoff games
- Most starts by a quarterback in first season: 19
- Most starts by a quarterback in first two seasons: 37
- Most starts by a quarterback in first three seasons: 55
- Most wins by a quarterback in first 60 consecutive starts: 40
- First quarterback to start and win a playoff game in each of his first three seasons
- Most combined regular and postseason wins in first three years as a quarterback: 36
- Most playoff road wins: 4
- Only 6th Quarterback in NFL history to eclipse 10,000 yards in first 3 seasons. (Something Ben
didn’t do.)
- Career 85.9 rating
- Eight 4th quarter or OT comeback victories (Ben has 16 in more than twice the years)
- In previous seasons, he has finished with a better QB rating than the likes of Brees, Manning, Ryan, etc.
- Joe in his first 3 seasons compared to Brady, Brees and Manning in their first 3 seasons. Flacco threw for just 21 fewer passing yards than Brady and tossed four fewer interceptions. Flacco threw for 1,655 more yards than Brees, two more touchdowns and four fewer picks. Manning, who averaged 88 more passes per season, threw for way more yards and touchdowns than Flacco, but also tossed 24 more interceptions. Add on top of that more wins than any of them in their first 3 seasons, I guess those guys were below average at that point as well.
"Picture Me Rollin"
When Flacco leads the league in passing yards, TDs, becomes an all pro, wins league MVP, OPOY, or becomes the Super Bowl MVP, then I’ll buy your arguement. Until then, I stand by my comment, Flacco is a top 15-20 QB in the NFL.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
When Flacco leads the league in passing yards, TDs, becomes an all pro, wins league MVP, OPOY, or becomes the Super Bowl MVP, then I’ll buy your arguement.
But this doesn’t hold true to guys like Bradford and Ryan? That’s the problem with “fans” today and their assessments of QB’s. They all think that automatically, any first round QB should come in and be throwing 4,500 yards and 38 TD’s right away, every season. Just doesn’t work like that.
The stats I showed above CLEARLY show that Flacco is on the same pace (if not better) than some of the best QB’s in the league today were through their first 4 years. So what makes you think he cannot reach their level?
"Picture Me Rollin"
Flacco is just not as talented as those other guys
There are many fine QB’s to play in the NFL who did great things but were not All pro or HOF players. Phil Simms, Rich Gannon, Joe Kapp, etc. There is nothing wrong with being in that group of players.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
top 10-12 QB?
Hmmm, that is debatable. Here is a list of QBs that I would take over Flacco without a doubt (in no particular order):
Cutler
Stafford
Rogers
Bradford
Brees
Ryan
Eli Manning
Big Ben
Rivers
Brady
Peyton Manning
Newton
Here’s a list of QB’s that I would consider before Flacco:
Carson Palmer
Michael Vick
Tony Romo
Here’s a list of QB’s that I think are comparable to Flacco in talent:
Alex Smith
Josh Freeman
Matt Hasslebeck
the remaining is a list of QB’s that Flacco is better than:
Mark Sanchez
Colt McCoy
Tim Tebow
Kevin Kolb
Tarvaris Jackson
I didn’t mention Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert because it’s still a little early for them. I liked what I saw out of Dalton, I think Ponder has potential, but I am not so sure about Gabbert’s future.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
oops
I left Schaub off the list. I would put him with Palmer, Vick and Romo as QB’s I would strongly consider over Flacco. In summary, Flacco is probably a top 15-20 QB in the league.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Flacco wins. He is the QB of a consistently winning team. Do you think it is just some strange coincidence that we are the only team in the league to make the playoffs each of the last 4 seasons?
I can truthfully sit here and say that we would not have made the playoffs in ANY of the last 4 seasons without Flacco.
"Picture Me Rollin"
I can truthfully sit here and say that we would not have made the playoffs in ANY of the last 4 seasons without Flacco.
Literally or figuratively? Of course they couldnt have with only 10 players. But do you seriously believe your own statement? You think that Rivers, Schuab, Stafford, Cutler, Brady etc. couldnt have done what Flacco has in Baltimore?
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
You think that Rivers, Schuab, Stafford, Cutler, Brady etc. couldnt have done what Flacco has in Baltimore?
I did not say that. I said that without Flacco’s play and having some other QB (a realistic choice) we would not have been in the playoffs.
People seem to think that there is just some magical player out there who Baltimore could realistically get that would be better than Joe. Of course we would be better with Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, etc. But we will never get any of those guys.
Flacco is hands down the best logical option we have right now, and it is one that Ravens fans are definitely satisfied with.
"Picture Me Rollin"
That's cool
I even agree with what you are saying. Flacco is the best QB on the ravens roster right now. Flacco is the best QB they logically can get their hands on. Baltimore is a good organization and they likely wont be drafting in the top 10 where they can land a top tier QB prospect any time soon.
Where we disagree is that I don’t buy Flacco as a top 10-12 QB in the NFL. He is a steady game manager. He will never take a game over with his throws or his athletic ability. He will never make many highlight reels. He will never be given credit for “leading his team” to the big one as long as Baltimore continues to be a run-first, defensive minded organization. Is that fair to Flacco? That part is debatable, and you have offered some fine arguements. I just think it is what it is.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
He will never take a game over with his throws or his athletic ability. He will never make many highlight reels.
Did you not watch the Steelers game in week 9 where he lead us 92 yards in less than 2 minutes for the win? Or when we were down 21 points at halftime against Arizona and he took over the game and drove us down again for the winning field goal?
Seemed to me that he had taken over the AFCCG and if not for a dropped pass, Flacco goes down as playing one of the best games in AFCCG history with that would be game winning drive.
He HAS taken over games, plenty of times, with his throws. I am not sure how you have missed this? Still baffling to me that people look at him as an average QB when everything else proves otherwise.
"Picture Me Rollin"
Agree to disagree
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
And how are you so sure he will “never” do any of the things you mentioned? How are you so sure he won’t be a much, much improved Quarterback come his 8th, 9th, 10th year?
Let me guess, it is just a hunch based on what you saw in a handful of games, right?
He is far more than a game manager, he is a proven QB in this league that has played well enough to warrant the credit of being up there as one of the better signal callers in the NFL.
"Picture Me Rollin"
Anything is possible
Eli Manning has progressed quite a bit from his first 4-5 seasons in the NFL. However based on what i have seen from Flacco, he is missing the “it factor.” I hate using that cliche, but no other way to put it frankly.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Usually that is the only response I get from people who don’t think Flacco is a quality QB, so I am used to it by now.
It just tells me that they have nothing to refute my facts with other than the “I don’t know why I hate him, he just looks hateable” statement.
"Picture Me Rollin"
I dont hate him
I just don’t think he is a top-tier or elite QB in the NFL. His highest TD total is 25, which is decent, but far from elite. His highest passer rating is 93.6, which again is admirable, but not elite. His highest completion % is 63, which is very good, but again not great. He has thrown for over 3600 yards several times, but by today’s standards, that too is not elite.
The biggst knock that I have heard about Flacco is that he plays scared. I have not watched him enough to agree or deny that sentiment. But he does get sacked a lot considering that he has a great Oline and he fumbles a lot, which again perhaps lends to the theory that he doesnt have great pocket presence.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I don’t think myself or many others have every tried to argue that he is an “elite QB” I don’t care seeing the likes of Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Manning x2, Ben, Rivers ahead of him in all rankings.
It is comments such as…..
well mark sanchez, and trent dilfer “got” their teams there too
hes a third tier Qb on the level of mark sanchez, matt cassel
Here’s a list of QB’s that I think are comparable to Flacco in talent:
Alex Smith
Josh Freeman
Matt Hasslebeck
These are what really fucking irk me. Flacco is head and shoulders above those guys at this point. To even hear that crap just disappoints me in what so little people know about Flacco. They just see the calm demeanor, small school product, ugly face and immediately connect that with average QB.
I don’t have a problem with him not being “elite” but I do have a problem with people saying that there is no argument whatsoever that he is in that 2nd tier of QB’s. Then when people’s only reason is "he just doesn’t have that “it” factor" stinks even more because it is nothing factual.
"Picture Me Rollin"
All your points are noted
but it’s obvious we have to agree to disagree. I don’t expect to change your way of thinking regarding a player on your favorite team. I learned that lesson the hard way (my brother is a broncos fan and he thinks Tebow is the Bees knees).
It would be like you trying to convince me that Chris Johnson is better than Adrian Peterson. It’s not going to happen.
You brought up some good points though!
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Schaub, Rivers, and Stafford, are all sooo much better than Bert. You should be ashamed for even comparing them
"If you havin' dragon problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 arrows but my knee took one."
Does stafford really count since last season was his first season where he stayed healthy?
I guess Stafford is also better than big ben
You'd also have to look at what he did in the seasons when he wasn't perfectly healthy.
Like, you know, setting the rookie record that Cam Newton topped this year.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
g
he thinks joe flacco is a good QB so his definition of good and the rest of the worlds definition
Yeah I think its crazy for anyone to think Joe Flacco is a good quarterback have you seen this guy play it’s terrible and his quarterback rating sucks . He even out played Tom Brady in the playoffs and all I could say after that is Flacco isnt a good quarterback we need Blaine Gabberts or Oprah to be the ravens quarterback.
>He even outplayed Tom Brady in the playoffs
Small Sample Size for the freakin’ win, right?
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
by Doc Scratch on Feb 11, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
BA-DA-SHA
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
by Doc Scratch on Feb 11, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
oh wait no that's a serious point my bad
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
by Doc Scratch on Feb 11, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
I do think it's better at the top
Last year there was no surefire QB prospect among the group, though Cam proved everyone wrong. RGIII and Luck strike me as two of the best guys to come out in a while.
Not sure about how the mid-tier guys match up, which is where this will probably be decided. Dalton is good but who knows if he’s close to his ceiling. I think Locker will be awesome but Ponder… eh. 2012 looks like Wheeden will be solid and possibly Tannehill, but beyond them it’s hard to tell.
2011 also had Gabbert stinking it up too to be fair, so he drags everyone else down with him.
Last year teams got desperate for a QB
This year there are fewer desperate teams. But I think the class has much more potential. I can’t believe Osweiler continues to get such low draft grades when you look at where other big, athletic QBs (Freeman comes to mind) got drafted.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
Osweiler is another QB with crazy mechanics.
He’s big, but his throwing motion is messed up. 3rd round, tops.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Throwing motions can be changed/taught
You should draft for what cannot be changed. No one liked Tebow’s mechanics either. He was drafted in the 1st. Last year no one thought Newton could read defenses or run a pro offense. He did pretty well after half an offseason.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
Here's hoping at least four of these guys are taken before pick #25 ;)
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
A lot is two words. Allot can be one word but it has another meaning.
The only time you really want to use "myself" is when you are the recipient of your own action. Usually you're better off using "me."
Your is not the correct contraction of you are. The word you're looking for is you're.
It's anyway, not anyways.
But if you only remember one thing...
There are no apostrophes in plurals.
Red Auerbach is proud of Joe Hortiz.
.
When the job is finished no one remembers how long it took, just how well it was performed.
by Buffalo for Eternity on Feb 11, 2012 7:40 PM EST reply actions
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